What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[thezsak]

What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

I'm a long time emacs and gnus user previously, not a programmer. It's been many years since I used gnus. Years ago gnus was already setup on the system.

and I'm trying to use the information at
http://www.xsteve.at/prg/gnus/

Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Emanuel Berg]

thezsak <don.saklad@gmail.com> writes:

> What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in
> emacs?

Gnus is already included and so all you need to do is
specify a couple of parameters in an init file, so you
don't have to input everything every time you run Emacs
and Gnus. What should be put in the init file depends,
I suppose the most basic question is: would you like to
use Gnus for mail/listbots or for news, or both? If you
answer this, we'll be able to help you more...

As for the best server, I use:

(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "Aioe.org"))

I don't know if it is the best - it doesn't require
user authentication, which I like, but some people say
for this reason spammers go wild. I don't know about
that, I don't see much spam at all, truth be told.

> I'm a long time emacs and gnus user previously, not a
> programmer. It's been many years since I used gnus.
> Years ago gnus was already setup on the system.

It is not a big deal to setup Gnus and it can be done
with no or minimal changes to the rest of the system
(as in, you'll have to create a couple of dirs at
most).

> and I'm trying to use the information at
> http://www.xsteve.at/prg/gnus/

Then, you might also be interested in my page:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/gnus/index.html

The introduction is totally schematic but the
screenshots are cool and there are tons of
configuration. In those files, perhaps you are able to
distill how to setup the basic stuff as well, but I
take it there are better sources for that.

-- 
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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Glyn Millington]

Emanuel,

You need to Google 'Don Saklad gnus' as a matter of urgency.  Don has
been asking the self-same  questions  on usenet for at least 12 years.

It is a case of what logicians call the "invincible ignorance fallacy",
as opposed to the theological kind!

atb


Glyn

Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Emanuel Berg]

Glyn Millington <glyn.millington@gmail.com> writes:

> You need to Google 'Don Saklad gnus' as a matter of
> urgency. Don has been asking the self-same questions
> on usenet for at least 12 years.

Aha, actually I know that, I've read the "tribute"
page. But I didn't react to the "thezsak" handle.

> It is a case of what logicians call the "invincible
> ignorance fallacy", as opposed to the theological
> kind!

Funny thing is, I recently started to worry that people
might perceive *me* as crazy, for answering the same
questions with virtually the same answers over and
over. I'm going to put all that in an ODAA file
(opinions disguised as answers) soon...

-- 
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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Funny thing is, I recently started to worry that people
> might perceive *me* as crazy, for answering the same
> questions with virtually the same answers over and
> over.

It's more likely to be the weird line length that makes you look crazy.


  :-),

   Adam

-- 
 "Repetition is the death of magic."                          Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Glyn Millington]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Glyn Millington <glyn.millington@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> You need to Google 'Don Saklad gnus' as a matter of
>> urgency. Don has been asking the self-same questions
>> on usenet for at least 12 years.
>
> Aha, actually I know that, I've read the "tribute"
> page. But I didn't react to the "thezsak" handle.

Well, seeing your enthusiasm for helping people on here, I wanted to save
you a wild-goose chase this time.

atb



Glyn

Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Emanuel Berg]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>> Funny thing is, I recently started to worry that
>> people might perceive *me* as crazy, for answering
>> the same questions with virtually the same answers
>> over and over.
>
> It's more likely to be the weird line length that
> makes you look crazy.

I have fill-column 55. You seem to have 70-ish, but I
don't see that because Gnus fills your length to mine,
so to speak. That auto-filling is great, for example I
am never bothered by people posting from Google Groups
(those blank lines in between are filled away). The
only drawback is when source code is posted; I usually
take a look and if it seems like something I could use,
I do `C-u g' to get the (entire) article without any
washing.

The reason for 55 you can find here - I use a
projector, so the screen is 3-4 meters from me, and I
like a big font (face) at that:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/lines.png

So you see, when you get to know me, I'm not that
crazy... :)

PS. Speaking of this, I like reading magazines a lot,
like "The Ring", "Black Belt", "Linux Magazine", and so
on. Those typically have three columns a page, and they
are very pleasant to read. Probably the professional
writers write in a way to make it easy to digest, but
the form contributes as well, no doubt. So I think
people actually have too long lines! But like I said, I
had Gnus solve that for me :) DS.

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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> I have fill-column 55. You seem to have 70-ish,

Yes, I am using the default.

[... tumbleweed rolls by ...]

> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/lines.png

It looks like you are wasting a lot of black space on the right by using
such a short line length, on your screenshot?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Repetition is the death of magic."                          Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Emanuel Berg]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> It looks like you are wasting a lot of black space on the right by
> using such a short line length, on your screenshot?

Waste and waste - it is not as simple as filling the black gap.

Take a look at this screenshot [1] with fill-column as 70. The black
wasted space isn't wasted, but it looks sort of strange not to have
any margin. It is like a book where the letters would end abruptly not
with the right margin, but with the page end itself.

But there is a much more strange thing. Filling isn't done with the
orientation intact. Then it has to be reset. It is difficult to
explain, so check out two more dumps. That happens in sequence. First
this [2], then it has to be reset manually [3].

I don't know, perhaps that is something I misconfigured, because it
seems it shouldn't be like that. If that wasn't an issue, perhaps I'd
go from 55 to 60 or even 65... (with 70, as it is now, it happens
almost at every single paragraph).

[1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/space.png
[2] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/first-move.png
[3] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/then-reset.png

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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> The black wasted space isn't wasted, but it looks sort of strange not
> to have any margin. It is like a book where the letters would end
> abruptly not with the right margin, but with the page end itself.

The lack of a left margin does not seem to bother you, though?

Maybe using a proportional font might be of use to you, when width is
constrained?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Och när jag blundar hörs din röst                           Adam Sjøgren
  Jag kan inte se ditt ansikte                           asjo@koldfront.dk
  Det var det jag glömde först"


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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Emanuel Berg]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> The lack of a left margin does not seem to bother
> you, though?

No, because that is a straight line so it is a clear
enough delimiter in itself.

> Maybe using a proportional font might be of use to
> you, when width is constrained?

What, you mean when "l"s are thin and "M" wide and so
on? Oh, no. No, I'm happy with the font. Its is

FONTFACE="Terminus"
FONTSIZE="28x14"

in /etc/default/console-setup

and I've had it for years.

By the way, that page on Saklad is hilarious,
especially:

http://saklad.stormloader.com/about.html

All the stats and references to old posts at DejaNews
seems to be broken though.

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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>> The lack of a left margin does not seem to bother
>> you, though?

> No, because that is a straight line so it is a clear
> enough delimiter in itself.

You were comparing to books - they have margins at both sides of the
text - so that made me wonder...

>> Maybe using a proportional font might be of use to
>> you, when width is constrained?

> What, you mean when "l"s are thin and "M" wide and so
> on? Oh, no.

Yes, like, you know, in books.

The conclusion is different strokes for different folks, I guess - just
don't be surprised when people think your articles look strange, not
using the recommended default line width.


  :-),

   Adam

-- 
 "The tendency for larkiness in this place is                 Adam Sjøgren
  deplorable."                                           asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: What's the best server and how do you setup gnus in emacs?

[Emanuel Berg]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>>> The lack of a left margin does not seem to bother
>>> you, though?
>>
>> No, because that is a straight line so it is a clear
>> enough delimiter in itself.
>
> You were comparing to books - they have margins at
> both sides of the text - so that made me wonder...

Yes, I got you thinking.

Books have two margins, true. But the "outer" margin
(the one at the edge of the page, not the one where
both pages meet) is the one the widest. Either, it
actually is wider, or it gets wider by the binding.

I don't know why, but I consider a editor buffer to be
the right hand side of a book, if I had to pick one of
the two.

But the book comparison isn't the best come to think of
it. The reason is that books have their right (text)
margin straight as well. That makes the whitespace
margin less important as it is clear where the line is
anyway. If I could get that in Gnus, I could have it 70
as well (or perhaps 65, but then I have to solve that
other problem as well).

>>> Maybe using a proportional font might be of use to
>>> you, when width is constrained?
>>
>> What, you mean when "l"s are thin and "M" wide and
>> so on? Oh, no.
>
> Yes, like, you know, in books.

But not in programming or computer work. That would
bring chaos to everything. Just think of all
indentation. I could give you a thousand examples, but
let's say - this:

(let ((files (with-temp-buffer
               (call-process-shell-command
                "ls ~/.emacs.d/emacs-init/**/*.elc ~/.emacs-no-bc"
                nil ; no INFILE
                t)  ; BUFFER (t = current buffer, i.e. the temp one)
               (buffer-substring (point-min)
                                 (point-max)) )))
  (dolist (f (split-string files)) (load-file f)) )

How would that look? And how would it be carried out? I
don't know how auto-indentation would handle a
proportional font, only manually - which will always be
necessary if you want it a certain way, and with
functions (e.g., [1]), shortcuts, and finger habits
that's actually rather relaxing and pleasant work...

Also, isn't Usenet monospaced? If so, don't you want it
to look the same way in your client as other people
will see it - the actual text, at least?

> The conclusion is different strokes for different
> folks, I guess - just don't be surprised when people
> think your articles look strange, not using the
> recommended default line width.

Well, actually that would surprise me as the difference
shouldn't be that radical. It is just a line width
that's - let's see - 78.6% the default. Is that really
that radical? But I am used to see everything "my way"
as your posts are at 55 as well, when I read them. If
they weren't, and I read my own posts, perhaps I would
react to the difference (?).

By the way, I counted the chars in a newspaper which
had 4 columns a page - 32 chars! - for a randomly
picked line. I don't know what fill-column that would
be - 40? In "Black Belt", as I mentioned: 3 columns, 42
chars.

Is this easier to read? (It is a bit unscientific as
you had "training" reading it. Also, as said, I think
the professional newspapers guys and girls write in a
certain way to fit the form, probably short sentences
and paragraphs where the heavy information first, and
no complicated sentence structure (or parenthesis that
makes you loose track...) - uhm, what did I just say?
Oh, yeah, is this easier to read?

(setq fill-column 40)

By the way, I counted the chars in a
newspaper which had 4 columns a page -
32 chars! - for a randomly picked line.
I don't know what fill-column that would
be - 40? In "Black Belt", as I
mentioned: 3 columns, 42 chars.

[1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/emacs-init/align.el

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