gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[David Hume]

Gnus is hanging again, showing a rotating wheel. How can I see what it is
doing? Is there a way to attach to the process and cause it to do backtrace,
before I kill it off?

Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[Adam Sjøgren]

David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> writes:

> Gnus is hanging again, showing a rotating wheel. How can I see what it is
> doing? Is there a way to attach to the process and cause it to do backtrace,
> before I kill it off?

Maybe M-x toggle-debug-on-quit and then hit C-g when the wheel is spinning?


  Best regards,

    Adam, not an expert.

-- 
 "Fish swim, birds fly,                                       Adam Sjøgren
  daddy's yell, mama's cry                               asjo@koldfront.dk
  old men sit and think
  I drink"


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Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[David Hume]

On 2014-08-30, Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> wrote:
> David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> writes:
>
>> Gnus is hanging again, showing a rotating wheel. How can I see what it is
>> doing? Is there a way to attach to the process and cause it to do backtrace,
>> before I kill it off?
>
> Maybe M-x toggle-debug-on-quit and then hit C-g when the wheel is spinning?
>

Aha! c-g actually stopped it hanging! I didn't know I could do that. OK next
time...
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Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[Adam Sjøgren]

David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> writes:

> Aha! c-g actually stopped it hanging! I didn't know I could do that. OK next
> time...

Cool! C-g is the generic "ok, stop trying" thing in Emacs:

,----[ C-h k C-g ]
| C-g runs the command keyboard-quit, which is an interactive compiled
| Lisp function in `simple.el'.
| 
| It is bound to C-g.
| 
| (keyboard-quit)
| 
| Signal a `quit' condition.
| During execution of Lisp code, this character causes a quit directly.
| At top-level, as an editor command, this simply beeps.
`----


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "tonight at dusk we go to the house of this former           Adam Sjøgren
  landscape employee and use bricks to remove his        asjo@koldfront.dk
  car windows."


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Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[Adam Sjøgren]

David Hume <David.Hume@hushmail.com> writes:

> [Quoted text removed due to X-No-Archive]

Ah, I didn't know that one.


  Thanks!

    Adam

-- 
 "FUTURE DIRECTIONS                                           Adam Sjøgren
     None."                                              asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[Emanuel Berg]

On-topic: Even though you can use C-g in this an other
cases, it is likely you got yourself into either an
infinite loop or some computationally intense operation
and/or some operation applied to some huge material
(hence the seemingly infinite delay). The first case
(the infinite loop) is a bug and shouldn't happen. The
second case should only happen when you want it to, and
thus expects a long delay. So you still have to
understand what's going on, preferably sooner than
later!

OT:

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>> [Quoted text removed due to X-No-Archive]
>
> Ah, I didn't know that one.

What does this mean? X-No-Archive sounds like a header.

`M-x apropos X-No-Archive' yields:

    message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive
    Variable: If non-nil, cite text from articles that
              has X-No-Archive set.

I already have that `t', so it seems I can't get it
back that way. Perhaps Mr. Sjøgren has that as `nil'?
If so, why? But even more so, why does the OP have
X-No-Archive set? What kind of prefix is "X"?

/The hairdresser

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Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[Adam Sjøgren]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

>>> [Quoted text removed due to X-No-Archive]

> What does this mean?

It means that the article I was (not) quoting from had the X-No-Archive
header set, which indicates that the author doesn't want his words
archived - quoting them would go against that wish, so Gnus has
functionality to avoid doing that.

[The variable message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive]

> Perhaps Mr. Sjøgren has that as `nil'?

Indeed, I have.

> If so, why?

Because I want to respect the wishes of the people I respond to.

Also, I think setting X-No-Archive is kind of silly, if not asocial.
This functionality helps to showcase that.

> But even more so, why does the OP have X-No-Archive set?

The header does not indicate motive ;-)

> What kind of prefix is "X"?

It is the standard "this-is-not-a-standard-header-yet"-prefix. It is
common in formats that employ headers.

In some environments the use of "X-" for non-standardized headers has
been deprecated, as I understand it, but there are a number of de facto
standard X-headers.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "I wouldn't even think about playing music if I was          Adam Sjøgren
  born in these times ..."                               asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[Emanuel Berg]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> Because I want to respect the wishes of the people I
> respond to.

Yeah, but are you sure this was set by the OP? He might
be using some software that has that by default.

> Also, I think setting X-No-Archive is kind of silly,
> if not asocial. This functionality helps to showcase
> that.

Yeah - why shouldn't it be archived? Many times I
Google a problem I see that some other guy has asked
about that same problem, and the following discussion
helps me to solve it, just as it helped him before me.

> In some environments the use of "X-" for
> non-standardized headers has been deprecated, as I
> understand it, but there are a number of de facto
> standard X-headers.

OK. Who then decides if it is a standard or not and is
this later formalized in some RFC?

Intuitively it seems a bad idea to prefix as "not
standard" as that would have to be changed (i.e., "X-"
removed) if it ever made it to the standard.

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Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[Adam Sjøgren]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Yeah, but are you sure this was set by the OP? He might
> be using some software that has that by default.

I don't know of any software that does - but of course, anything is
possible.

X-No-Archive is a quite well-established convention.

> Yeah - why shouldn't it be archived?

There can be many reasons. In the more technical groups it is perhaps
less relevant than in other groups.

> OK. Who then decides if it is a standard or not and is this later
> formalized in some RFC?

The standard says which headers are defined.

I don't remember how the RFC process works, ask Wikipedia/Google :-)

> Intuitively it seems a bad idea to prefix as "not standard" as that
> would have to be changed (i.e., "X-" removed) if it ever made it to
> the standard.

Well, it would also be bad if a standard could not start using a name
just because somebody "took it".

There are arguments both ways.


  Best regards,

   Adam

-- 
 "Sunday morning when the rain begins to fall                 Adam Sjøgren
  I believe I have seen the end of it all"               asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing

[Emanuel Berg]

David Hume <David.Hume@hushmail.com> writes:

> OK maybe I am silly. I can't remember for certain,
> but I think I set that header so my articles would
> not be preserved in google groups for all eternity.

GG wont last for all eternity, but even if it it did,
what does it matter?

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XNAY (was: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing)

[Peter Münster]

On Sun, Aug 31 2014, David Hume wrote:

> I think I set that header so my articles would not be preserved in
> google groups for all eternity.

Sure, XNAY prevents *your* articles from being archived.
But anybody (except for Adam Sjøgren ;) can quote your text (or parts of
your text taken out of context), and that will be archived.

My message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive is t, so this message will
stay understandable in the future... ;)

-- 
           Peter


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Re: XNAY (was: gnus hanging - how to see what it is doing)

[Emanuel Berg]

Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> writes:

>> I think I set that header so my articles would not
>> be preserved in google groups for all eternity.
>
> Sure, XNAY prevents *your* articles from being
> archived. But anybody (except for Adam Sjøgren ;) can
> quote your text (or parts of your text taken out of
> context), and that will be archived.

Indeed. So the end result is: it can still get
archived, only you don't know if it is, and if it is,
it may be incomplete. What I can see it is much worse
than just let it all be in the open. That way you will
know it is archived if you ever need to return to the
conversation (which frequently happens to me). And,
whenever so, the conversation will be completely
archived, not fragmentarily at the mercy of the
quoters.

By the way, XNAY is "X-No-Archive: Yes".

> My message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive is t, so
> this message will stay understandable in the
> future

Mine is too and I don't remember setting that. Actually
let me check that: no, I didn't. That tells me only
people like Comrade Sjøgren are respectful enough to
honor that header. By default Gnus don't (I did 'emacs
-Q', then (require 'message) and `M-x describe-variable
message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive').

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Re: XNAY

[Emanuel Berg]

David Hume <David.Hume@hushmail.com> writes:

> According to my installation of emacs there are some
> 22000 articles on the server in this group. So my
> articles are still present in the place I posted them
> for people to look back to. Unless of course I
> decided to cancel one. But then I would probably only
> do that if what I had written turned out to be wrong,
> or irrelevent or something like that.

If so, it is better to quote yourself and say "this
turned out to be incorrect, actually it is..."

And then you have to add - like US politicians - "And
in time, I hope to be forgiven" :)

> I didn't post my articles on google groups so I don't
> feel any obligation to make sure they go there and
> stay there for all eternity, or until the demise of
> google.

Why do you keep brining up GG? What do they have to do
with anything? This communication of ours is open,
free. The XNAY won't change that, it will only get
things confused and mixed up.

-- 
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Re: XNAY

[Emanuel Berg]

David Hume <David.Hume@hushmail.com> writes:

> OK but can anyone be certain that what you quote is
> what I wrote?

No, just look:

> What a bummer! David didn't write this!

But what does it matter? What are you paranoid about?
Don't be afraid of your computer!

-- 
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Re: XNAY

[Emanuel Berg]

David Hume <David.Hume@hushmail.com> writes:

>> But what does it matter? What are you paranoid
>> about? Don't be afraid of your computer!
>
> You can put a spin on anything to suite your
> purposes. Call it anti-social, call it paranoia,
> whatever. 

I call it: stupid.

Fact: You message *is* archived, one way or another.
Deal with it, or stop using mail and Usenet.

Read this article, that was posted here a while back:

http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours

And if your message is archived, which it is, it might
as well be archived in a complete and predictable way.

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