They were right -- Gnus is better

They were right -- Gnus is better

[Hikaru Ichijyo]

I wanted to start using Emacs to handle my mail.  I had initially
decided to use VM, because while I like newsreaders, it didn't seem like
a rational idea to use a mailreader that tries hard to think it can't
delete anything.

Lots of people on gnu.emacs.help told me, subtly, you can run VM if you
want...but you'll end up using Gnus.  Gnus will get you.  You'll end up
on Gnus after you've been on VM for awhile.

<sigh>

They were right.  I tried VM for a couple of months.  It drove me mad.
I switched to Gnus, and while it took me awhile to get it configured the
way I want, it's perfect.

I'm running the nnmbox backend, because I like keeping compatibility
with Alpine and Mutt.  All of the cautionary warnings about how slow it
is supposed to be seem to date from an era of much slower computers.
nnmbox seems virtually instant doing just about anything.

I still have some questions though...

Firstly, it seems possible to setup posting aliases via
gnus-posting-styles or under gnus-parameters.  They both seem to let you
control where and when the settings get applied.  Is there a difference
or a reason to prefer doing it one way or the other?  I'm currently
using gnus-posting-styles, and it seems to work fine.

Another question I had is regarding server connections.  Currently, I
have mail and news pathways setup to let me have:

     * news via NNTP (primary)
     * personal email from a local spool,
       with a POP source also bringing mail
       into that same spool from another server
     * an IMAP server that I read separately online

It's all working fantastic...but here's the question:  If I launch Gnus
with gnus-no-server, I can read the local spool and avoid connecting to
NNTP/IMAP/POP, which is great, and I use that often.  What if I want to
connect to IMAP only with a gnus-no-server session?  Is there a way to
do that?  If not, it'd be a nice feature in a future version,
especially since while email is a part of daily life, these days,
Usenet really isn't.  It'd be nice to be able to have mail-only
connectability on demand in the menus if that's not possible now,
for those times when you want to see IMAP but would rather leave your
news server out of it.

-- 
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent
that will reach to himself.
					--Thomas Paine

Re: They were right -- Gnus is better

[Damien Wyart]

* Hikaru Ichijyo <ichijyo@macross.sdf.jp> in gnu.emacs.gnus:
> I wanted to start using Emacs to handle my mail. I had initially
> decided to use VM, because while I like newsreaders, it didn't seem
> like a rational idea to use a mailreader that tries hard to think it
> can't delete anything.

Did you read about advanced expiration features?
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Expiring-Mail.html

> Firstly, it seems possible to setup posting aliases via
> gnus-posting-styles or under gnus-parameters. They both seem to let
> you control where and when the settings get applied. Is there
> a difference or a reason to prefer doing it one way or the other? I'm
> currently using gnus-posting-styles, and it seems to work fine.

I would say posting styles are more "global" and more powerful
(signature can be changed for example) than group parameters. I more see
group parameters as a way of handling exceptions, doing specific things
in some groups which are unusual (for example mailing lists groups
needed specific settings for reply-to). You can even override posting
styles inside group parameters...

To get a better feeling, you could read (again ?) the full details in
the manual:

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Posting-Styles.html
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html

> Another question I had is regarding server connections.  Currently, I
> have mail and news pathways setup to let me have:

>      * news via NNTP (primary)
>      * personal email from a local spool,
>        with a POP source also bringing mail
>        into that same spool from another server
>      * an IMAP server that I read separately online

> It's all working fantastic...but here's the question:  If I launch Gnus
> with gnus-no-server, I can read the local spool and avoid connecting to
> NNTP/IMAP/POP, which is great, and I use that often.  What if I want to
> connect to IMAP only with a gnus-no-server session?  Is there a way to
> do that?  If not, it'd be a nice feature in a future version,
> especially since while email is a part of daily life, these days,
> Usenet really isn't.  It'd be nice to be able to have mail-only
> connectability on demand in the menus if that's not possible now,
> for those times when you want to see IMAP but would rather leave your
> news server out of it.

gnus-no-server will start Gnus in level 2, so should contact servers
with groups at level 1 and 2.
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Levels.html

See also these discussions:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/gnu.emacs.bug/X89aW39EtuI
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/gnu.emacs.gnus/Xk3P85m_WQ4
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/11479
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/82463

-- 
DW

Re: They were right -- Gnus is better

[Emanuel Berg]

Damien Wyart <damien.wyart@free.fr> writes:

> I would say posting styles are more "global" and
> more powerful (signature can be changed for example)

Don't forget the message parameters if you want that
truly global. I used to rely on gnus-posting-styles a
lot but eventually moved most of that work to other
settings. Here are some examples, that I use:

;; misc
(setq message-subject-trailing-was-query nil) ; keep "... (was: ...)"
(setq message-dont-reply-to-names "\\(emanuel.berg.\\|embe\\)8573@student.uu.se")
(setq message-signature "underground experts united")

;; headers
(setq mail-header-separator "---")
(setq message-default-headers       "Mail-Copies-To: never")
(setq message-default-news-headers  "To: ")
(setq message-default-mail-headers  "Newsgroups: ")
(setq message-hidden-headers
      '("References" "Face" "X-Face" "X-Draft-From" "Mail-Copies-To" "From" "Gcc") )

-- 
underground experts united

Re: They were right -- Gnus is better

[Hikaru Ichijyo]

Damien Wyart <damien.wyart@free.fr> writes:

> * Hikaru Ichijyo <ichijyo@macross.sdf.jp> in gnu.emacs.gnus:
>> I wanted to start using Emacs to handle my mail. I had initially
>> decided to use VM, because while I like newsreaders, it didn't seem
>> like a rational idea to use a mailreader that tries hard to think it
>> can't delete anything.
>
> Did you read about advanced expiration features?
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Expiring-Mail.html

Yes, I read about all sorts of setups for expiring mail in the manual,
and I finally decided on setting nnmail-expiry-wait to immediate, and
binding the "d" key to gnus-summary-put-mark-as-expirable-next.  That
way when I hit "d" the way I'm used to doing in other mailreaders, it
marks that message as eligible for deletion, and when I leave that mail
folder, everything that was marked for expiry gets truly deleted.  That
really works for me.

>> It's all working fantastic...but here's the question:  If I launch Gnus
>> with gnus-no-server, I can read the local spool and avoid connecting to
>> NNTP/IMAP/POP, which is great, and I use that often.  What if I want to
>> connect to IMAP only with a gnus-no-server session?  Is there a way to
>> do that?  If not, it'd be a nice feature in a future version,
>> especially since while email is a part of daily life, these days,
>> Usenet really isn't.  It'd be nice to be able to have mail-only
>> connectability on demand in the menus if that's not possible now,
>> for those times when you want to see IMAP but would rather leave your
>> news server out of it.
>
> gnus-no-server will start Gnus in level 2, so should contact servers
> with groups at level 1 and 2.
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Levels.html

Ok that's solves that completely.  :)

-- 
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent
that will reach to himself.
					--Thomas Paine

Re: They were right -- Gnus is better

[Emanuel Berg]

Hikaru Ichijyo <ichijyo@macross.sdf.jp> writes:

> Firstly, it seems possible to setup posting aliases
> via gnus-posting-styles or under gnus-parameters.
> They both seem to let you control where and when the
> settings get applied. Is there a difference or a
> reason to prefer doing it one way or the other? I'm
> currently using gnus-posting-styles, and it seems to
> work fine.

If so, use it, of course. But: what is it you want to
do?

> It's all working fantastic...but here's the
> question: If I launch Gnus with gnus-no-server, I
> can read the local spool and avoid connecting to
> NNTP/IMAP/POP, which is great, and I use that often.
> What if I want to connect to IMAP only with a
> gnus-no-server session? Is there a way to do that?

Yes, of course. I can't help you because I never did
stuff like that, I on the contrary always want Gnus to
automatically connect to all sources of incoming
communication - but that sounds like very possible to
do, so keep digging if you want it :)

-- 
underground experts united

Re: They were right -- Gnus is better

[Hikaru Ichijyo]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Hikaru Ichijyo <ichijyo@macross.sdf.jp> writes:
>
>> Firstly, it seems possible to setup posting aliases
>> via gnus-posting-styles or under gnus-parameters.
>> They both seem to let you control where and when the
>> settings get applied. Is there a difference or a
>> reason to prefer doing it one way or the other? I'm
>> currently using gnus-posting-styles, and it seems to
>> work fine.
>
> If so, use it, of course. But: what is it you want to
> do?

Just finding out if I was doing it the "right" way.  It sounds like
gnus-posting-styles is a good way to set broad defaults.

-- 
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent
that will reach to himself.
					--Thomas Paine

Re: They were right -- Gnus is better

[Emanuel Berg]

Hikaru Ichijyo <ichijyo@macross.sdf.jp> writes:

> Just finding out if I was doing it the "right" way.

"There is no right or wrong – only what is and what
isn't".

> It sounds like gnus-posting-styles is a good way to
> set broad defaults.

It is even better to use `gnus-posting-styles' to set
the *exceptions* as long as the broad defaults can be
set in specific variables that aren't parsed or
matched, and that are documented for that specific
purpose alone.

Then, not only do the variables do configuration, they
can also be used as data if you want them in some
other context.

-- 
underground experts united
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