Re: author of post and signature problems

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:33:26 -0800, prad wrote:

> also, how do i get by the signature limit?
> i have tried to set gnus-signature-limit to high values and still get 
> Denied posting  excessive signature
> (unless i remove the two hypens so the system thinks i have no
> signature)

Are you sure it isn't the newsserver that implements a limit? ("Denied
posting" sounds like something from a server.)

Why on earth do you want to bypass a signature size limit?


  :-),

   Adam

-- 
 "Accept the mystery!"                                        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: author of post and signature problems

[prad]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:33:26 -0800, prad wrote:
>
>> also, how do i get by the signature limit?
>> i have tried to set gnus-signature-limit to high values and still get 
>> Denied posting  excessive signature
>> (unless i remove the two hypens so the system thinks i have no
>> signature)
>
> Are you sure it isn't the newsserver that implements a limit? ("Denied
> posting" sounds like something from a server.)
>
> Why on earth do you want to bypass a signature size limit?
>
well i've used the same sig for years and i have no trouble posting with
it on the other news groups (in fact, the emacs.help group) with
claws-mail.

so i'm inclined to think this is resolvable within gnus.



In friendship,
prad

                                      ... with you on your journey
Towards Freedom
http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 10:12:31 -0800, prad wrote:

>> Why on earth do you want to bypass a signature size limit?
 
> well i've used the same sig for years and i have no trouble posting with
> it on the other news groups (in fact, the emacs.help group) with
> claws-mail.

Breaking netiquette for a long time surely isn't an argument for keeping
on doing so?

> so i'm inclined to think this is resolvable within gnus.

You are right, the message you are seeing is indeed from message.el's
message-check-news-body-syntax function. I jumped to the wrong
conclusion; sorry.

It looks like you can configure this variable to allow you to shoot
yourself in the foot:

,----[ C-h v message-shoot-gnksa-feet RET ]
| message-shoot-gnksa-feet is a variable defined in `message.el'.
| Its value is nil
| 
| Documentation:
| *A list of GNKSA feet you are allowed to shoot.
| Gnus gives you all the opportunity you could possibly want for
| shooting yourself in the foot.  Also, Gnus allows you to shoot the
| feet of Good Net-Keeping Seal of Approval.  The following are foot
| candidates:
| `empty-article'     Allow you to post an empty article;
| `quoted-text-only'  Allow you to post quoted text only;
| `multiple-copies'   Allow you to post multiple copies;
| `cancel-messages'   Allow you to cancel or supersede messages from
| 		    your other email addresses.
`----

You'll want the - above undocumented - `signature' "candidate".


  Best regards,

    Adam

¹ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/software/good-netkeeping-seal/

-- 
 "Accept the mystery!"                                        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Richard Riley]

prad <prad@towardsfreedom.com> writes:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:33:26 -0800, prad wrote:
>>
>>> also, how do i get by the signature limit?
>>> i have tried to set gnus-signature-limit to high values and still get 
>>> Denied posting  excessive signature
>>> (unless i remove the two hypens so the system thinks i have no
>>> signature)
>>
>> Are you sure it isn't the newsserver that implements a limit? ("Denied
>> posting" sounds like something from a server.)
>>
>> Why on earth do you want to bypass a signature size limit?
>>
> well i've used the same sig for years and i have no trouble posting with
> it on the other news groups (in fact, the emacs.help group) with
> claws-mail.
>
> so i'm inclined to think this is resolvable within gnus.
>
> In friendship,
> prad
>
>                                       ... with you on your journey
> Towards Freedom
> http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
> Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's
>

Possibly try doing a delayed post or "unplugged". That might show you if
its Gnus or the server.

Re: author of post and signature problems

[prad]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> Possibly try doing a delayed post or "unplugged". That might show you if
> its Gnus or the server.

hi richard!
nice to hear from you especially since it was primarily your post on
emacs.help that prompted me to go with gnus!

this isn't a big deal as far as posting since i already know how to
by-pass the problem. i'm just trying to find out what the significance
of gnus-signature-limit variable is. i also have only tried this on
gmane.emacs.gnus.user
gmane.test

i've see some people set it to 500 or do stuff like:
(setq gnus-signature-limit '(200.0 "^------Forward"))
which apparently means that if there are more than 200 lines or there
is that forward line it shouldn't be considered a sig. none of this
worked for me - it's like the line limit of 4.0 is hardwired into gnus. :D

possibly the sig-limit variable is used to handle other people's posted sigs?

the forward matter can particularly be an issue i guess since i like to
introduce forwarded text with a short blurb followed by my sig.

in any case, i'll move on with something else since this is a really fun
software to explore! however, if you or anyone can provide further
insight into the sig-limit variable, it will always be appreciated.

--
In friendship,
prad

                                      ... with you on your journey
Towards Freedom
http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's

Re: author of post and signature problems

[David Brown]

prad <prad@towardsfreedom.com> writes:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> well i've used the same sig for years and i have no trouble posting with
> it on the other news groups (in fact, the emacs.help group) with
> claws-mail.
>
> so i'm inclined to think this is resolvable within gnus.
>
>                                       ... with you on your journey
> Towards Freedom
> http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
> Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's

If this is your signature, the probably is probably that gnus is
considering your entire post to be the signature.

Convention has the signature start with a line containing two hyphens, a
space, and a newline.  Gnus searches for this when scanning for the
signature.

Your signature has no separator, so it has no way of finding it.  It
also means that the signature won't be visually distinguished by clients
that have that capability.

David

Re: author of post and signature problems

[prad]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> Breaking netiquette for a long time surely isn't an argument for keeping
> on doing so?
>
:D i'm only wanting to 'break' it by 3 lines :D
besides, it's never been a problem on any elist i've been on before and
i'll bet there is no issue if i do it from claws-mail.

>> so i'm inclined to think this is resolvable within gnus.
>
> You are right, the message you are seeing is indeed from message.el's
> message-check-news-body-syntax function. I jumped to the wrong
> conclusion; sorry.
>
no problem and thx very much for digging up the things in message.el, adam!

i found the '(signature . disable) bit in there last night, but i didn't
want to go messing around with that stuff just yet. i'm happy for now
just removing the space after the 2 hyphens so gnus thinks i have no sig.


--
In friendship,
prad

                                      ... with you on your journey
Towards Freedom
http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Richard Riley]

prad <prad@towardsfreedom.com> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> Possibly try doing a delayed post or "unplugged". That might show you if
>> its Gnus or the server.
>
> hi richard!
> nice to hear from you especially since it was primarily your post on
> emacs.help that prompted me to go with gnus!

Good to hear. Gnus is hard work at times but its worth it. Stick with
it.

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Richard Riley]

David Brown <gnus@davidb.org> writes:

> prad <prad@towardsfreedom.com> writes:
>
>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>
>> well i've used the same sig for years and i have no trouble posting with
>> it on the other news groups (in fact, the emacs.help group) with
>> claws-mail.
>>
>> so i'm inclined to think this is resolvable within gnus.
>>
>>                                       ... with you on your journey
>> Towards Freedom
>> http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
>> Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's
>
> If this is your signature, the probably is probably that gnus is
> considering your entire post to be the signature.

I think Prad removed the "-- " or else he couldnt post with the sig.

>
> Convention has the signature start with a line containing two hyphens, a
> space, and a newline.  Gnus searches for this when scanning for the
> signature.
>
> Your signature has no separator, so it has no way of finding it.  It
> also means that the signature won't be visually distinguished by clients
> that have that capability.
>
> David

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 12:19:16 -0800, prad wrote:

> :D i'm only wanting to 'break' it by 3 lines :D

Maybe this is the time to consider condensing your signature a bit?
Sometimes change is for the better.

> besides, it's never been a problem on any elist i've been on before and
> i'll bet there is no issue if i do it from claws-mail.

I am sorry to hear that claws-mail ignores the Good Net-Keeping Seal of
Approval; yet elated that Gnus doesn't.

> i found the '(signature . disable) bit in there last night, but i didn't
> want to go messing around with that stuff just yet. i'm happy for now
> just removing the space after the 2 hyphens so gnus thinks i have no sig.

So now you are breaking both signature netiquette _and_ the convention
of the signature separator. And happy about it - how quaint.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Accept the mystery!"                                        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: author of post and signature problems

[despen]

prad <prad@towardsfreedom.com> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>
> possibly the sig-limit variable is used to handle other people's posted sigs?
...
> --
> In friendship,
> prad
>
>                                       ... with you on your journey
> Towards Freedom
> http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
> Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's

Not only do you get around reasonable conventions, but
your sig gets copied into replies and avoids GNUS attempts to
highlight your sig correctly.

Here's your sig made to follow the rules:

--
In friendship, prad
... with you on your journey Towards Freedom
http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's

Re: author of post and signature problems

[prad]

despen@verizon.net writes:

> Not only do you get around reasonable conventions, but
> your sig gets copied into replies and avoids GNUS attempts to
> highlight your sig correctly.
>
this is a very good point which hadn't occurred to me. thank you.
i understand the newsgroup rationale thanks to your demonstration despen
and as i explore gnus further. i am happy to comply.

when in gnus do as the gnusians do!

-- 
In friendship,
prad

Re: author of post and signature problems

[despen]

prad <prad@towardsfreedom.com> writes:

> despen@verizon.net writes:
>
>> Not only do you get around reasonable conventions, but
>> your sig gets copied into replies and avoids GNUS attempts to
>> highlight your sig correctly.
>>
> this is a very good point which hadn't occurred to me. thank you.
> i understand the newsgroup rationale thanks to your demonstration despen
> and as i explore gnus further. i am happy to comply.

Bravo, in my estimation, you're a man among men.
One who listens to contrary opinions and accepts some of them.
Good form.

Re: author of post and signature problems

[prad]

despen@verizon.net writes:

> Bravo, in my estimation, you're a man among men.
> One who listens to contrary opinions and accepts some of them.
> Good form.
>
most kind of you, despen. i will remember.

i'm starting to understand the issues with newsgroups better now and
your suggestions really helped. i see what gnus is trying to do
regarding the sig as well and understand the 'strip signature' box as
well as what happens when you have guys like me messing around with
things. :D

i've been going through the manual and it has been very useful (i am now
'good enough to get by' with news), but i have some difficulty putting
pieces together. if such a thing as a recommended tutorial (i've found a
couple of things which were ok in specialize areas) exists, possibly
that would be a better approach (... though i know some people who can
just figure out everything from a manual and that may be a very
worthwhile skill to develop even if it takes longer).

tomorrow we move on to email with gnus!!

-- 
In friendship,
prad

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Philipp Haselwarter]

On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 22:25:37 +0100, asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) said:
---8<---[snipped 18 lines]---8<---

AS> So now you are breaking both signature netiquette _and_ the
AS> convention of the signature separator. And happy about it - how
AS> quaint.

The signature police speaking..

---8<---[snipped 6 lines]---8<---

Let's compare:
,----
| Best regards,
| 
|     Adam
| 
| -- 
|  "Accept the mystery!"                                        Adam Sjøgren
|                                                          asjo@koldfront.dk
`----

,----
| --
| In friendship,
| prad
| 
|                                       ... with you on your journey
| Towards Freedom
| http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
| Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's
`----

So prad's crime basically consists in making the greeting part part of
his signature. Counting that part out, he'd have a 4-line signature:

,----
| In friendship,
| prad
| 
| --
|                                       ... with you on your journey
| Towards Freedom
| http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
| Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's
`----

One possible solution:
In .gnus.el:
,----
| (setq gnus-parameters
|       `((".*"
|          (posting-style (body "\n\n\nIn friendship,\nprad\n")))))
`----
In .signature:
,----
|                                       ... with you on your journey
| Towards Freedom
| http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
| Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's
`----

That being said -- keep the noise low, there are enough ads on the web,
short signatures ftw.

-- 
Philipp Haselwarter

Re: author of post and signature problems

[prad]

Philipp Haselwarter <philipp.haselwarter@gmx.de> writes:

> One possible solution: ...
>
thx philipp! that was an interesting observation and ingenious solution.
i will heed your traffic point though and keep my sig to 2 lines -
besides i enjoy using C-c C-z to kill the bottom part of my sig for some
reason. :D

,----
| (setq gnus-parameters
|       `((".*"
|          (posting-style (body "\n\n\nIn friendship,\nprad\n")))))
`----
what i don't get is how to figure out things like setting the 
gnus-parameters. i tried looking through the manual's index to see if i
could get a clue as to whether that would have led me to your
solution. reading the text i found the posting-style parameter (though
the body function was not there (though it is if one follows the posting
styles link).

so i guess it's just a matter of on-going work with gnus and reading the
manual regularly so one can become familiar with all the goodies that
are actually available to us. additionally, persuing the newsgroup
should produce some gems i'm sure, though i don't have an intelligent
way of searching through it yet.

-- 
In friendship,
prad

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Brett Viren]

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> wrote:
>
> Why on earth do you want to bypass a signature size limit?
>

Only Kibo knows.

-Brett.

Re: author of post and signature problems

[Massimo Gengarelli]

prad <prad@towardsfreedom.com> writes:
> i just started with gnu after some encouraging advice from the
> emacs.help group and things are fitting together nicely so far.

Nice choice ;-) I've been using Gnus for a couple of weeks now and I'm
very happy with it :-P

> i've been posting on gmane.test and am surprised to see that i don't
> show up as the author of the post or the replies. instead i see it is 
> => gmane.test

That's normal, in the summary buffer you'll see "=> gmane.test" which
means "You posted on gmane.test", but if you open up the message, you'll
see yourself as author. This is (imho) better than showing up only the
author as you'll see faster your own messages.

> In friendship,
> prad

In friendship,
  massi

author of post and signature problems

[prad]

i just started with gnu after some encouraging advice from the
emacs.help group and things are fitting together nicely so far.

i've been posting on gmane.test and am surprised to see that i don't
show up as the author of the post or the replies. instead i see it is 
=> gmane.test

i imagine i show up as author to others, but i don't know why it is not
so for myself.

also, how do i get by the signature limit?
i have tried to set gnus-signature-limit to high values and still get 
Denied posting  excessive signature
(unless i remove the two hypens so the system thinks i have no
signature)


In friendship,
prad

                                      ... with you on your journey
Towards Freedom
http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's