Re: archiving threads one contributes to

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[John Hasler]

Alan Schmitt writes:
> Is there a way to tell gnus to keep local copies of newsgroup threads
> to which I've contributed? Ideally I would like to have them to be
> archived in some local folder alongside my mail.

Why not just install Leafnode?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Alan Schmitt]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 669 bytes --]

On 2014-07-22 19:51, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> writes:

> Alan Schmitt writes:
>> Is there a way to tell gnus to keep local copies of newsgroup threads
>> to which I've contributed? Ideally I would like to have them to be
>> archived in some local folder alongside my mail.
>
> Why not just install Leafnode?

Thank you for the suggestion. Leafnode seems to be a little
heavyweight. It seems that what I want is based on
'gnus-summary-copy-article' and tweaking 'gnus-move-split-methods' to
have nice suggestions where to put the article. It won't be automatic,
but I guess it's a start.

Best,

Alan

-- 
OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 494 bytes --]

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Emanuel Berg]

Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:

> Thank you for the suggestion. Leafnode seems to be a
> little heavyweight. It seems that what I want is
> based on 'gnus-summary-copy-article' and tweaking
> gnus-move-split-methods' to have nice suggestions
> where to put the article. It won't be automatic, but
> I guess it's a start.

What do you mean by "local copies"? If you mean files
with messages on you disk, don't you have that already?

For example, I have your message (the one I quote) as

~/News/agent/nntp/Aioe.org/gnu/emacs/gnus/5737

Not that I use those files very often directly as I
think most things are preferrable to do through Gnus
anyway.

Put it this way: what problem/situation do you have?

-- 
underground experts united

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Alan Schmitt]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1346 bytes --]

Hello Emanuel,

On 2014-07-22 22:38, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:
>
>> Thank you for the suggestion. Leafnode seems to be a
>> little heavyweight. It seems that what I want is
>> based on 'gnus-summary-copy-article' and tweaking
>> gnus-move-split-methods' to have nice suggestions
>> where to put the article. It won't be automatic, but
>> I guess it's a start.
>
> What do you mean by "local copies"? If you mean files
> with messages on you disk, don't you have that already?
>
> For example, I have your message (the one I quote) as
>
> ~/News/agent/nntp/Aioe.org/gnu/emacs/gnus/5737
>
> Not that I use those files very often directly as I
> think most things are preferrable to do through Gnus
> anyway.
>
> Put it this way: what problem/situation do you have?

My problem is twofolds: how do I make sure that the files corresponding
to threads I've replied to remain on my hard drive, while other files
may be cleared at some point, and how do I integrate these file to my
mail search infrastructure (which is using notmuch).

Copying the articles into a mailbox seems to be the most straightforward
way to solve both issues, I just don't know how to do it automatically.

Thanks,

Alan

-- 
OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 494 bytes --]

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Emanuel Berg]

Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:

> My problem is twofolds: how do I make sure that the
> files corresponding to threads I've replied to remain
> on my hard drive, while other files may be cleared at
> some point

You mean, you will delete the other files manually?

> and how do I integrate these file to my mail search
> infrastructure (which is using notmuch).

I have no experience of notmuch, but perhaps it can
sort your mails in directories based on threads?

> Copying the articles into a mailbox seems to be the
> most straightforward way to solve both issues, I just
> don't know how to do it automatically.

Well, I don't see why you would want to delete any
files to begin with - just lots of extra work, it seems
to me, for no obvious advantage (?).

If there isn't any Gnus library or other software that
will help you with this, you'll have to record the
subjects and message IDs of the posts you send.

As in:

(defun save-sent-msg-data ()
  ; save Message ID and Subject to a file
  ; (I don't know if the Message ID is available at
  ;  this point - ?)
)
(add-hook 'message-sent-hook 'save-sent-msg-data)

Then, when you delete the unwanted messages, don't
delete any that has a Subject that is listed in that
file, or if any of your Message IDs is in the
References header.

Or, when you receive a post, do a corresponding check
and, as you say, send it to a group.

But this seems a bit sketchy so I recommend looking
around if there isn't a time tested solution
around... again, if you really feel you must delete the
other files that is!

-- 
underground experts united

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Alan Schmitt]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1966 bytes --]

On 2014-07-23 16:25, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:
>
>> My problem is twofolds: how do I make sure that the
>> files corresponding to threads I've replied to remain
>> on my hard drive, while other files may be cleared at
>> some point
>
> You mean, you will delete the other files manually?

No. Right now some article are present in my agent cache (in
agent/nntp/news.gwene.org/gmane/emacs/gnus/user). If I understand things
correctly, these articles may expire at some point:

  gnus-agent-expire-days
  
  The number of days that a ‘read’ article must stay in the agent's
  local disk before becoming eligible for expiration (While the name is
  the same, this doesn't mean expiring the article on the server. It
  just means deleting the local copy of the article). What is also
  important to understand is that the counter starts with the time the
  article was written to the local disk and not the time the article was
  read. Default 7.

I want to make sure the articles are copied locally to some place where
they won't expire. However I don't want to retain every article posted
on these newsgroups indefinitely.

> But this seems a bit sketchy so I recommend looking
> around if there isn't a time tested solution
> around... again, if you really feel you must delete the
> other files that is!

It seems the default value is to delete. And the manual argues against
caching everything: "If you have an extremely slow NNTP connection, you
may consider turning article caching on. Each article will then be
stored locally under your home directory. As you may surmise, this could
potentially use huge amounts of disk space, as well as eat up all your
inodes so fast it will make your head swim. In vodka."
(https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Article-Caching.html)

Alan

-- 
OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 494 bytes --]

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Emanuel Berg]

Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:

> No. Right now some article are present in my agent
> cache (in
> agent/nntp/news.gwene.org/gmane/emacs/gnus/user). If
> I understand things correctly, these articles may
> expire at some point:
>
>   gnus-agent-expire-days
>   
> The number of days that a ‘read’ article must stay in
> the agent's local disk before becoming eligible for
> expiration (While the name is the same, this doesn't
> mean expiring the article on the server. It just
> means deleting the local copy of the article).
>
> What is also important to understand is that the
> counter starts with the time the article was written
> to the local disk and not the time the article was
> read. Default 7.

I also have that value 7 and all my posts are there,
from way back. Perhaps just because the posts are
marked in certain ways, you still have to issue some
command to have them removed from your disk. I don't
know except I have old posts, lots of them.

> I want to make sure the articles are copied locally
> to some place where they won't expire. However I
> don't want to retain every article posted on these
> newsgroups indefinitely.

Why not? It is just a bunch of text files, all neatly
organized already. My News directory is 5.7M!

If you want to delete the files with discretion,
perhaps you can tell Gnus never to do it (if indeed
Gnus does it for you) and then write a script that
deletes unwanted posts habitually while keeping some,
based on the Message ID and Subject headers I
mentioned.

> It seems the default value is to delete.

I don't know, mine are there. Check your folders, don't
you have old posts?

> And the manual argues against caching everything: "If
> you have an extremely slow NNTP connection, you may
> consider turning article caching on. Each article
> will then be stored locally under your home
> directory. As you may surmise, this could potentially
> use huge amounts of disk space, as well as eat up all
> your inodes so fast it will make your head swim. In
> vodka."

With "caching" do you mean keep local copies on the
disk, i.e., the news ASCII files with digits as names?
(e.g., 5527)?

I don't see how a bunch of such files can do anything
to either disk space or deplete your inode supply.

Try 'df -i' to see if you are running out of inodes, I
have all filesystems one or two percent.

Perhaps that manual entry was written in another time
with small disks/inode filesystems, very enthusiastic
Useneters, and/or or with respect to posts carrying
binary data?

-- 
underground experts united
_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Alan Schmitt]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1822 bytes --]

On 2014-07-23 17:16, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> I also have that value 7 and all my posts are there,
> from way back. Perhaps just because the posts are
> marked in certain ways, you still have to issue some
> command to have them removed from your disk. I don't
> know except I have old posts, lots of them.

I checked and I do too.

>> I want to make sure the articles are copied locally
>> to some place where they won't expire. However I
>> don't want to retain every article posted on these
>> newsgroups indefinitely.
>
> Why not? It is just a bunch of text files, all neatly
> organized already. My News directory is 5.7M!

I've been using gnus to read news and RSS for two weeks (before it was
only for email), and mine is at 53M. I see that all the RSS from gwene
is cached there as well.

> If you want to delete the files with discretion,
> perhaps you can tell Gnus never to do it (if indeed
> Gnus does it for you) and then write a script that
> deletes unwanted posts habitually while keeping some,
> based on the Message ID and Subject headers I
> mentioned.

I've dig a little into this, and it seems that one needs to manually
run 'gnus-agent-expire' or 'gnus-agent-expire-group'
(https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Agent-Expiry.html). By
the way, you should check the value of agent-enable-expiration in your
groups, if it's ENABLE and you call one of these commands, then old
messages will go away.

(A bit later ...) I marked the messages I wanted to keep with '*', and
I ran 'gnus-agent-expire'. It freed about 30M (it may seem small, but
recall that I've been using it for about 2 weeks). So I guess
a combination of '*' and regularly expiring is the solution here.

Alan

-- 
OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 494 bytes --]

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Emanuel Berg]

Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:

>> I want to make sure the articles are copied locally
>> to some place where they won't expire. However I
>> don't want to retain every article posted on these
>> newsgroups indefinitely.  Why not? It is just a
>> bunch of text files, all neatly organized
>> already. My News directory is 5.7M!
>
> I've been using gnus to read news and RSS for two
> weeks (before it was only for email), and mine is at
> 53M. I see that all the RSS from gwene is cached
> there as well.

Yes, 53M is a lot in two weeks!

Either you have just been much, much more active, or
there is something different in our setups/usage.

You can check how many files you have in ~/News with:

  $ file ~/News -type f | wc -l

and ditto directories, '-type d'. (I have 725 in 63.)

>> If you want to delete the files with discretion,
>> perhaps you can tell Gnus never to do it (if indeed
>> Gnus does it for you) and then write a script that
>> deletes unwanted posts habitually while keeping
>> some, based on the Message ID and Subject headers I
>> mentioned.
>
> I've dig a little into this, and it seems that one
> needs to manually run 'gnus-agent-expire' or
> gnus-agent-expire-group' ...  the way, you should
> check the value of agent-enable-expiration in your
> groups, if it's ENABLE and you call one of these
> commands, then old messages will go away.

The value of `gnus-agent-enable-expiration' is indeed
ENABLE, but I take it it doesn't matter as I won't
invoke those commands?

> (A bit later ...) I marked the messages I wanted to
> keep with '*', and I ran 'gnus-agent-expire'. It
> freed about 30M (it may seem small, but recall that
> I've been using it for about 2 weeks). So I guess a
> combination of '*' and regularly expiring is the
> solution here.

In the help for `gnus-agent-enable-expiration', it
says:

    This value may be overridden to disable expiration
    in specific categories, topics, and groups.  Of
    course, you could change
    gnus-agent-enable-expiration to DISABLE then enable
    expiration per categories, topics, and groups.

So I think perhaps that'd be worth examining.

If marking is the best way for you, perhaps you could
"semi-automatize" that for example by writing a defun
that when you call it, it marks all messages in the
thread (with the same subject, say), or something like
this.

Because, you have a very well-defined thing what you'd
like to do and not to do. Delete all except for those
in threads where I (you) have been active. That's
something that's 100% possible to automatize, you just
have to find out how.

But from my perspective I would rather examine why your
News is so big after so little time.

-- 
underground experts united

Re: archiving threads one contributes to

[Alan Schmitt]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1164 bytes --]

On 2014-07-23 20:25, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:
>
>> I've been using gnus to read news and RSS for two
>> weeks (before it was only for email), and mine is at
>> 53M. I see that all the RSS from gwene is cached
>> there as well.
>
> Yes, 53M is a lot in two weeks!
>
> Either you have just been much, much more active, or
> there is something different in our setups/usage.

It's because I read RSS feeds with gwene (which amounts to about 100
new messages each day).

> If marking is the best way for you, perhaps you could
> "semi-automatize" that for example by writing a defun
> that when you call it, it marks all messages in the
> thread (with the same subject, say), or something like
> this.
>
> Because, you have a very well-defined thing what you'd
> like to do and not to do. Delete all except for those
> in threads where I (you) have been active. That's
> something that's 100% possible to automatize, you just
> have to find out how.

Yes, I'll think about it. Thanks a lot for the suggestion.

Alan

-- 
OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 494 bytes --]

archiving threads one contributes to

[Alan Schmitt]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 260 bytes --]

Hello,

Is there a way to tell gnus to keep local copies of newsgroup threads to
which I've contributed? Ideally I would like to have them to be archived
in some local folder alongside my mail.

Thanks,

Alan

-- 
OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 494 bytes --]