Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Joe Fineman]

Steve <joxer2000@verizon.net> writes:

> I've spent 3 days googling, info-ing and pulling my hair out, but I
> just can't seem to get smptmail to authenticate with verizon.

A friend of mine, a Real Programmer, went thru this for me.  I don't
understand it, but here, FWIW, is the resulting section of my .emacs
file:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
;;;;DEALING WITH VERIZON
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; SMTP ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(setq smtpmail-local-domain "verizon.net")
(setq smtpmail-sendto-domain "verizon.net")
;(setq smtpmail-debug-info t)
(setq user-full-name "Joe Fineman")

(setq user-mail-address "joe_f@verizon.net")

(load-library "smtpmail")
(setq smtpmail-smtp-server "outgoing.verizon.net")
(setq send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
(setq smtpmail-default-smtp-server "outgoing.verizon.net")
(setq smtpmail-smtp-service 25)
(setq smtpmail-auth-credentials
      '(("outgoing.verizon.net" 25 "joe_f" "********")))

(setq smtpmail-local-domain nil)

; for gnus
(setq load-path (cons (expand-file-name "/gnus-5.10.6/lisp") load-path))
(if (locate-library "gnus-load") (require 'gnus-load))

(load-library "message")
(setq message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
(setq gnus-spam-autodetect '(("nntp.*" . t)))

; uncomment to debug sending email problems
;(setq smtpmail-debug-info nil)

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; POP3 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; for Rmail
(setenv "MAILHOST" "incoming.verizon.net")
(setq rmail-primary-inbox-list
    '("po:joe_f") rmail-pop-password-required nil)


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; GNUS ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; For reading mail with gnus (other backends can be substituted for nnml)
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")))
(setq nnmail-spool-file "po:joe_f")
(load-library "pop3")
(setq nnmail-pop-password-required nil)
(setq nnmail-pop3-password-required nil)
(setq pop3-password-required nil)
(setq pop3-password "********")

(setq gnus-nntp-server "news.verizon.net")
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
---  Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||:  Look into the pewter pot               :||
||:  To see the world as the world is not.  :||

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Steve]

Joe Fineman wrote:
> Steve <joxer2000@verizon.net> writes:
> 
>> I've spent 3 days googling, info-ing and pulling my hair out, but I
>> just can't seem to get smptmail to authenticate with verizon.
> 
> A friend of mine, a Real Programmer, went thru this for me.  I don't
> understand it, but here, FWIW, is the resulting section of my .emacs
> file:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ;;;;DEALING WITH VERIZON
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; SMTP ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> (setq smtpmail-local-domain "verizon.net")
> (setq smtpmail-sendto-domain "verizon.net")
> ;(setq smtpmail-debug-info t)
> (setq user-full-name "Joe Fineman")
> 
> (setq user-mail-address "joe_f@verizon.net")
> 
> (load-library "smtpmail")
> (setq smtpmail-smtp-server "outgoing.verizon.net")
> (setq send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
> (setq smtpmail-default-smtp-server "outgoing.verizon.net")
> (setq smtpmail-smtp-service 25)
> (setq smtpmail-auth-credentials
>       '(("outgoing.verizon.net" 25 "joe_f" "********")))

The only part that looks significantly different from my setup is the 
inclusion of a password string in the credentials.  I have mine set to 
nil.  So I tried putting my password in the credentials instead of nil, 
and it worked.  Seems like smtpmail is getting confused when that fourth 
argument is nil instead of a string.  I don't really like having my smtp 
password in my .emacs file though.  Maybe I can figure out where 
smtpmail is dropping the ball on this.

Thanks for the help!

--
-- Steve

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Tim McNamara]

Steve <joxer2000@verizon.net> writes:

> Joe Fineman wrote:
>> Steve <joxer2000@verizon.net> writes:
>> 
>>> I've spent 3 days googling, info-ing and pulling my hair out, but
>>> I just can't seem to get smptmail to authenticate with verizon.
>>
>> A friend of mine, a Real Programmer, went thru this for me.  I
>> don't understand it, but here, FWIW, is the resulting section of my
>> .emacs file:

<snip>

> The only part that looks significantly different from my setup is
> the inclusion of a password string in the credentials.  I have mine
> set to nil.  So I tried putting my password in the credentials
> instead of nil, and it worked.  Seems like smtpmail is getting
> confused when that fourth argument is nil instead of a string.  I
> don't really like having my smtp password in my .emacs file though.
> Maybe I can figure out where smtpmail is dropping the ball on this.

That looks pretty much just like mine, albeit I use a different ISP
that also requires SMTP authorization.  The only difference between
entering your credentials into Emacs/Gnus versus most other mail
programs is that you write the file directly rather than indirectly,
so you can actually see it.  That doesn't necessarily make it any less
secure.

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Nov 30 2005, Tim McNamara wrote:

> The only difference between entering your credentials into
> Emacs/Gnus versus most other mail programs is that you write the
> file directly rather than indirectly, so you can actually see it.
> That doesn't necessarily make it any less secure.

I don't use smtpmail.el, but AFAICS it is supposed to allow the
omission of the password in the config files, both when using
~/.authinfo [1] and when setting is directly in
`smtpmail-auth-credentials'.

Bye, Reiner.

[1] See (info "(gnus)NNTP")
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Steve]

Reiner Steib wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30 2005, Tim McNamara wrote:
> 
>> The only difference between entering your credentials into
>> Emacs/Gnus versus most other mail programs is that you write the
>> file directly rather than indirectly, so you can actually see it.
>> That doesn't necessarily make it any less secure.
> 
> I don't use smtpmail.el, but AFAICS it is supposed to allow the
> omission of the password in the config files, both when using
> ~/.authinfo [1] and when setting is directly in
> `smtpmail-auth-credentials'.
> 
> Bye, Reiner.
> 
> [1] See (info "(gnus)NNTP")

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the way it's supposed to work.  You set 
password to nil in your .gnus, or leave it out of .authinfo, and gnus 
prompts you for it.  Trouble is, for me it's not sending my username and 
  password correctly in that case. It's only working for me when I put 
the password in my .gnus file.  I think it's a bug.  I haven't debugged 
elisp code before, but if I can find some time to debug this I'll try to 
pinpoint exactly where it's going astray.

PS - tips on using the elisp debugger would be welcomed!

Thanks.

--
-- Steve

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Dec 02 2005, Steve wrote:

> It's only working for me when I put the password in my .gnus file.
> I think it's a bug.  I haven't debugged elisp code before, but if I
> can find some time to debug this I'll try to pinpoint exactly where
> it's going astray.

Set various debug variables from smptmail.el to t and sent the output
to the Gnus development list (ding@gnus.org) and/or the smptmail.el
maintainer.  Be sure to eliminate passwords and other sensitive data.
Include you configuration, too.

> PS - tips on using the elisp debugger would be welcomed!

(info "(gnus)Troubleshooting")

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Steve]

Reiner Steib wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 02 2005, Steve wrote:
> 
>> It's only working for me when I put the password in my .gnus file.
>> I think it's a bug.  I haven't debugged elisp code before, but if I
>> can find some time to debug this I'll try to pinpoint exactly where
>> it's going astray.
> 
> Set various debug variables from smptmail.el to t and sent the output
> to the Gnus development list (ding@gnus.org) and/or the smptmail.el
> maintainer.  Be sure to eliminate passwords and other sensitive data.
> Include you configuration, too.
> 
>> PS - tips on using the elisp debugger would be welcomed!
> 
> (info "(gnus)Troubleshooting")

Thanks, that helped a lot.  Using edebug, I found the problem and fixed 
it.  Should I send a patch to ding@gnus.org, or should I use 
M-xgnus-bug?  Is there a special format for submitting patches?

Thanks again.

--
-- Steve

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Steve]

Steve wrote:
> 
> Thanks, that helped a lot.  Using edebug, I found the problem and fixed 
> it.  Should I send a patch to ding@gnus.org, or should I use 
> M-xgnus-bug?  Is there a special format for submitting patches?
> 

The bug was in smtpmail.el, which I think is part of emacs, not gnus. 
So I guess I need to submit the patch to the gnu emacs folks.

--
-- Steve

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Dec 03 2005, Steve wrote:

> Reiner Steib wrote:
>> Set various debug variables from smptmail.el to t and sent the output
>> to the Gnus development list (ding@gnus.org) and/or the smptmail.el
>> maintainer.  Be sure to eliminate passwords and other sensitive data.
>> Include you configuration, too.
>> 
>>> PS - tips on using the elisp debugger would be welcomed!
>> (info "(gnus)Troubleshooting")
>
> Thanks, that helped a lot.  Using edebug, I found the problem and
> fixed it.  

Great!

> Should I send a patch to ding@gnus.org, or should I use M-xgnus-bug?

I'd prefer `ding@gnus.org' for Gnus patches.  If the patch is for
smptmail.el (which is not part of Gnus) you could send it to the
smptmail maintainer (Simon Josefsson <simon @ josefsson.org>) or do
`M-x report-emacs-bug RET' (if you got smptmail.el from Emacs).

(Don't worry to much about where to send the patch.  Eventually people
will forward it or point you to the right place.)

> Is there a special format for submitting patches?

"diff -u" is fine.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Steve]

Tim McNamara wrote:
<snip>
> That looks pretty much just like mine, albeit I use a different ISP
> that also requires SMTP authorization.  The only difference between
> entering your credentials into Emacs/Gnus versus most other mail
> programs is that you write the file directly rather than indirectly,
> so you can actually see it.  That doesn't necessarily make it any less
> secure.

I don't follow.  When I set the password to nil and gnus prompts me for 
it, as far as I can see the password never appears in plain text.  As 
you point out, when you put it in your .emacs or .gnus file, it is in 
plain text.  Isn't having a password in plain text less secure?  I 
admit, the risk is probably low and limited to a clever spybot reading 
my config file, but from a software design perspective, requiring 
passwords to be in plain text in a file is a bad thing.

But, I don't believe that's the intention in smtpmail.  It seems clear 
that it's designed to prompt for a password and do the right thing. 
It's just not working that way - at least not for me.

Thanks!

--
-- Steve

Re: verizon and smtp authorization have me stumped

[Tim McNamara]

Steve <joxer2000@verizon.net> writes:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
> <snip>
>> That looks pretty much just like mine, albeit I use a different ISP
>> that also requires SMTP authorization.  The only difference between
>> entering your credentials into Emacs/Gnus versus most other mail
>> programs is that you write the file directly rather than
>> indirectly, so you can actually see it.  That doesn't necessarily
>> make it any less secure.
>
> I don't follow.  When I set the password to nil and gnus prompts me
> for it, as far as I can see the password never appears in plain text.
> As you point out, when you put it in your .emacs or .gnus file, it is
> in plain text.  Isn't having a password in plain text less secure?  I
> admit, the risk is probably low and limited to a clever spybot reading
> my config file, but from a software design perspective, requiring
> passwords to be in plain text in a file is a bad thing.

If a clever spybot can read your home directory and your .emacs, your
system has major security problems.  Your e-mail password may be the
least of your worries.  

Unless your ISP is using a secure connection with encrypted data
transfer for logging in, the odds are good that your username and
password are going over the net in clear text anyway, and may
therefore be just as vulnerable.  It just may not look as vulnerable
if all you see are dots on your screen when you type in your password.