From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.user/11739 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: harven Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.user Subject: Re: What's a killed article ? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:00:52 +0100 Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: References: <878wqx82hp.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <87prk74tx9.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <86ej0mldi7.fsf@lifelogs.com> <864p1ek6up.fsf@lifelogs.com> <877i6a7da1.fsf@kobe.laptop> <87k5a03l8e.fsf@kobe.laptop> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1229632836 8085 80.91.229.12 (18 Dec 2008 20:40:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:40:36 +0000 (UTC) To: info-gnus-english@gnu.org Original-X-From: info-gnus-english-bounces+gegu-info-gnus-english=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 18 21:41:41 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gegu-info-gnus-english@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LDPgi-00046f-K8 for gegu-info-gnus-english@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:41:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41079 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LDPfW-0004O8-64 for gegu-info-gnus-english@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:40:26 -0500 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!news.wiretrip.org!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!proxad.net!feeder2-2.proxad.net!cleanfeed4-a.proxad.net!nnrp1-2.free.fr!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:31VKE8eDKSfnztV2r7Dm8A/su9A= Original-Lines: 75 Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2008 21:00:54 MET Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.240.200.149 Original-X-Trace: 1229630454 news-2.free.fr 8289 82.240.200.149:49592 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.gnus:81997 X-BeenThere: info-gnus-english@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader \(in English\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: info-gnus-english-bounces+gegu-info-gnus-english=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: info-gnus-english-bounces+gegu-info-gnus-english=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.user:11739 Archived-At: Giorgos Keramidas writes: > On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:21:43 +0100, Francis Moreau wrote: >> Giorgos Keramidas writes: >>> On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:46:22 -0600, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >>> new user when you are already an experienced developer. On the other >>> hand, if you *are* a newbie it costs nothing at all :-) >> >> Well, it costed me way too much time to get the basic usage of Gnus >> I've. > > Hi Francis, > > The full quote was: > > It takes a lot of empathy and practice to ``get into the > shoes'' of a new user when you are already an experienced > developer. On the other hand, if you *are* a newbie it costs > nothing at all :-) > > I'm sorry if this wasn't very clear. What I meant is that `newbies' are > often the best person to ask about documentation improvements. They do > not need to spend any time or effort to get into the `newbie mindset', > because they are already there. > > Experienced users tend to underestimate the effect of what they already > know to the way they read documentation. > >> IMHO, a lots of people are likely to be discouraged when trying to use >> gnus for the first time. > > That's true. Now is the perfect time to help with Gnus documentation if > you want. You still have the memories of being a new user, they are > still quite `fresh', and they stand a very good chance of being exactly > the same questions that another new user will have in a week or a month! >From the top of my head, some terms, either ambiguous or defined too late in the manual - MAIL BACK END (info "(gnus)Comparing mail back ends") The list of all available mail backends should be given sooner The following list appears in 1.5.3 (`nnml', `nnbabyl', `nnfolder', `nnmbox',`nnmh', and `nnmaildir') but nnimap is also mentioned in 3.22 and others are alluded to at 6.3.13 It would be nice if real life config examples were given for each of them and if their different features and limitations were summarized somewhere. For example, I tried to use nnmbox to browse some archive and got the following: Article mail.misc:1190 out of order. This seems specific to that backend, and still mysterious for me. - IDLE (info "(gnus)Daemons") what does exactly idle means ? Can really emacs be idle ? Is emacs idle between that short time separating two keystrokes ? Fetching mail freezes emacs, some warning and comments would be welcome here. - GNUS-SECONDARY-SELECT-METHODS and gnus-select-method. A single select method but many secondary methods ? Why differentiate ? Is it correct to put a mail group as the primary method ? In the following (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.yourprovider.net")) "news.yourprovider.net" is the address used for news retrieval whereas dolk is not the address for retrieval in (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnimap "dolk" (nnimap-address "localhost") (nnimap-server-port 1430)))) Or is it ? There are reports in this newsgroup of people getting in trouble if "dolk" is used instead of the nnimap address. I ran into that problem once. There are a number of step-by-step introductory guides around and all of them feel necessary to give a few definitions, which are not so well explained in the Gnus manual. So, it should not be difficult to expand the list. BTW I think it would be better to improve the GnusTutorial on emacswiki instead of modifying the Gnus manual.