Re: FAQ for gnu.emacs.gnus

[Dave Bennett <dbennett@micoks.net>]

Galen Boyer <galenboyer@hotpop.com> writes:

> So, you are suggesting that you don't want to take the time to learn how
> to use Gnus but you want to learn how to use Gnus anyways?
> -- 
> Galen deForest Boyer
> Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground.

How about, "One should not have to become an elisp programmer or have
to sort through scores of pages of the FAQ or manual or have to
decipher possibly hundreds of list variables to set up email?  Those
should not be part of the "learning how to use gnus anyways"
experience.  No one will ever learn how to use gnus if they cannot get
it installed.  You have to actually have a bicycle before you can
learn how to ride one.

Like Don I also have gnus working correctly with newsgroups, but
cannot get it to work with my pop3 server.  I have tried every example
in the FAQ and in the manual that even mentions pop3 to no avail.  I
have also tried at least 50 seemingly sensible modifications or
alterations to the pitiful fragments present therein with no results.
In fact, gnus is so pathetic that it doesn't generate _any_ meaningful
error messages to the emacs messages buffer.  With all of the
modifications I've made to my .gnus file in an attempt to get gnus
working with a pop3 server, they have all generated exactly the same
text in the messages buffer.

Comparatively speaking, getting pine to work with a pop3 email server
took less than 2 minutes.  And that was manually editing .pinerc.
Getting Kmail to work took less than 10 seconds.  mutt took about two
minutes as well.  To get gnus working with newsgroups took about 2
minutes as well.

I really like the gnus style for newsgroups and would like to extend
it to my email.  But without even one complete, working example of
email access in either the FAQ or the manual, and no sample .gnus file
anywhere (except for a couple I found on a French gnus page that also
do not work), it is not a task for a neophyte nor even an experienced
user attempting to migrate from another mail package.

What is needed in the FAQ is at least one sample .gnus file for each
type of server .gnus will support.  When people new to gnus ask
questions, it can then be suggested that they use one of these sample
.gnus files to get started and once that is working, to introduce
trackable modifications to that file to customize their installation.
If the sample file doesn't work, it will at least give a consistent
starting point to those on this newsgroup willing to provide
assistance in troubleshooting their system.

The FAQ and the manual both are seriously lacking in any kind of
examples.  Endless listing of functions and value settings without any
examples of them in use are pretty much useless.  At least showing the
effect of their implementation instead of links to other things the
manual seemingly believes you should already know would go a long ways
towards easing the understanding.

Endless replies to rtfm or posting a link to a useless FAQ or manual
helps no one.  And the subsequent repeated questions and posts from
confused user-wannabes generate more annoyance to those of you already
using the product successfully.

Yes, I am willing and available to rewrite the manual and the FAQ-
with working examples.  I have abundant technical and writing
experience and will invest the time needed to do this job "right".
But only if existing users, authors, and maintainers of gnus are
willing to answer "obvious" questions and test examples on types of
systems that I do not have access to.

The way I see it, the FAQ and manual need to be tiered.  One part that
is complete in and of itself for people who just want to set up gnus
and use it, not understand it.  This is the way things are for
99-44/100% of computer users.  Another section that goes further for
those wanting to tweak or customize their installation.  And a third
section for those who would undertake fixing, modifying or extending
the product.