* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list [not found] <m3vbmsvisc.fsf@example.com> @ 2014-11-06 15:08 ` Damien Wyart 2014-11-07 6:38 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13094.1415342343.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Damien Wyart @ 2014-11-06 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english [ copy & fu2 gnus.emacs.gnus] * Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> in gnu.emacs.help: > I've just been told that when I reply (`r` or `F`) to a message from > a mailing list, the `To` is the original message sender's address > instead of the mailing list address, the latter being in the `Cc` > field. > It appears that it should be enough to use `S L` to get the expected > behavior (the mailing list address in the `To` field, nothing in > `Cc`), but I'd like a unique keybinding for all the "reply" actions. > Hence my question: how could I make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when > replying to a message from a mailing list? If the lists have their own Gnus groups, I think the simplest solution is to play with the corresponding group parameter to-address (and broken-reply-to if needed). See: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html Else writing a custom replying function might be needed but I don't think there exists a predefined funtion to check if a message is from a mailing-list (checking List-Id and X-Mailing-List might be enough, though). -- DW ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list 2014-11-06 15:08 ` Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list Damien Wyart @ 2014-11-07 6:38 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13094.1415342343.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Denis Bitouzé @ 2014-11-07 6:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english-mXXj517/zsQ Le 06/11/14 à 16h08, Damien Wyart <damien.wyart@free.fr> a écrit : > [ copy & fu2 gnus.emacs.gnus] > > * Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> in gnu.emacs.help: >> I've just been told that when I reply (`r` or `F`) to a message from >> a mailing list, the `To` is the original message sender's address >> instead of the mailing list address, the latter being in the `Cc` >> field. > >> It appears that it should be enough to use `S L` to get the expected >> behavior (the mailing list address in the `To` field, nothing in >> `Cc`), but I'd like a unique keybinding for all the "reply" actions. > >> Hence my question: how could I make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when >> replying to a message from a mailing list? > > If the lists have their own Gnus groups, What do you mean by "Gnus" groups? Newsgroups, as provided by gmane for instance? > I think the simplest solution is to play with the corresponding group > parameter to-address (and broken-reply-to if needed). See: > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html Unfortunately, some of the lists I'm subscribed to don't have any newsgroup counterpart. > Else writing a custom replying function might be needed Sigh... > but I don't think there exists a predefined funtion to check if > a message is from a mailing-list Sigh... > (checking List-Id and X-Mailing-List might be enough, though). A further check of the list's headers puzzled me: `Reply-To:` is the list address, not the sender's one. Why Gnus doesn't take it into account when I reply with `r` or `F`? Thanks. -- Denis _______________________________________________ info-gnus-english mailing list info-gnus-english@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list [not found] ` <mailman.13094.1415342343.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> @ 2014-11-07 9:09 ` Damien Wyart 2014-11-07 18:53 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13173.1415386451.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Damien Wyart @ 2014-11-07 9:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english * Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> in gnu.emacs.gnus: > What do you mean by "Gnus" groups? Newsgroups, as provided by gmane > for instance? No, the notion of group in Gnus also applies to email messages. It is just a container of messages, either stored locally or accessed through IMAP for mails, or read via NNTP for News (the Agent also plays a role by caching locally, but let's keep things simple :). If you use Gnus to read email, you use mail groups, even if you do not know it :). See for example: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Splitting-Mail.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Choosing-a-Mail-Back-End.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Using-IMAP.html > > I think the simplest solution is to play with the corresponding group > > parameter to-address (and broken-reply-to if needed). See: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html > Unfortunately, some of the lists I'm subscribed to don't have any > newsgroup counterpart. How do you read them? If each list doesn't have its own group, you might need to configure splitting. Having a group per list is very convenient. > A further check of the list's headers puzzled me: `Reply-To:` is the > list address, not the sender's one. Why Gnus doesn't take it into > account when I reply with `r` or `F`? r is explicitely to reply to the author. Mail-Followup-To is stronger: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/message/Mailing-Lists.html This discussion might also be interesting: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/fr.comp.applications.emacs/gnus$20reply-to/fr.comp.applications.emacs/gkgqR88EJc8/Rf00vPL4__8J -- DW ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list 2014-11-07 9:09 ` Damien Wyart @ 2014-11-07 18:53 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13173.1415386451.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Denis Bitouzé @ 2014-11-07 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english-mXXj517/zsQ Le 07/11/14 à 10h09, Damien Wyart <damien.wyart@free.fr> a écrit : > * Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> in gnu.emacs.gnus: >> What do you mean by "Gnus" groups? Newsgroups, as provided by gmane >> for instance? > > No, the notion of group in Gnus also applies to email messages. It is > just a container of messages, either stored locally or accessed through > IMAP for mails, or read via NNTP for News (the Agent also plays a role > by caching locally, but let's keep things simple :). Okay. That's a feature I like very much, and that I'd like to apply also for current actions, e.g. to have a single keybinding for replying, be it to a email or to news articles. > If you use Gnus to read email, you use mail groups, even if you do not > know it :). With that definition of groups, I already knew that :) > See for example: > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Splitting-Mail.html > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Choosing-a-Mail-Back-End.html > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Using-IMAP.html > >> > I think the simplest solution is to play with the corresponding group >> > parameter to-address (and broken-reply-to if needed). See: >> > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html > >> Unfortunately, some of the lists I'm subscribed to don't have any >> newsgroup counterpart. > > How do you read them? In my main INBOX group (gmail IMPA). > If each list doesn't have its own group, you might need to configure > splitting. Having a group per list is very convenient. I guess so. I'll have a look at splitting mail. >> A further check of the list's headers puzzled me: `Reply-To:` is the >> list address, not the sender's one. Why Gnus doesn't take it into >> account when I reply with `r` or `F`? > > r is explicitely to reply to the author. Sigh... But, on the gnus refcard, I can see: ┌──── │ S r (r) Mail a reply to the author of this article. │ [...] │ S B r Like S r but ignore the Reply-To: header. └──── so `r` shouldn't ignore the Reply-To: header. > Mail-Followup-To is stronger: > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/message/Mailing-Lists.html Okay. > This discussion might also be interesting: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/fr.comp.applications.emacs/gnus$20reply-to/fr.comp.applications.emacs/gkgqR88EJc8/Rf00vPL4__8J Indeed. One of the contributor of this thread (in French) strongly disagrees with the Reply-To: header but I must admit I don't see what's his point. -- Denis _______________________________________________ info-gnus-english mailing list info-gnus-english@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list [not found] ` <mailman.13173.1415386451.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> @ 2014-11-07 19:25 ` Emanuel Berg 2014-11-09 16:53 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13309.1415552050.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2014-11-07 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> writes: > I guess so. I'll have a look at splitting mail. Here is an example of how to split - for different reasons, in including to get individual groups for listbots. Note though that many listbots are available as newsgroups so unless you already subscribe in an unorganized way instead of splitting, I'd find the "real" groups. (setq nnmail-split-methods '(("zsh" "^\\(Cc\\|\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*zsh-\\(announce\\|workers\\|users\\)@zsh\.org.*") ("debian.user" "^\\(Cc\\|\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*debian-user@lists\.debian\.org.*") ("cc" "^\\(Cc\\|\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*\\(help-gnu-emacs\\|info-gnus-english\\)@gnu\.org.*") ("spam-ooa" "^\\(Cc\\|\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*l4-hackers@os\.inf\.tu-dresden\.de.*") ("emacs-w3m" "^Subject: \\[emacs-w3m.*") ("mail.misc" "") )) Accidently, you can implement a DWIM `r' and `F' based on what group you are in = find out with `gnus-group-group-name' - as in, something like, (if (member (gnus-group-group-name) '("nnml:mail.sent" "nndraft:drafts") ) ... If you want to stick with the header extraction idea this might help you: (defun gnus-article-header-value (header) "Get the value of HEADER for the current article." (with-current-buffer gnus-original-article-buffer (gnus-fetch-field header) )) -- underground experts united _______________________________________________ info-gnus-english mailing list info-gnus-english@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list 2014-11-07 19:25 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2014-11-09 16:53 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13309.1415552050.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Denis Bitouzé @ 2014-11-09 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english-mXXj517/zsQ Le 07/11/14 à 20h25, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> a écrit : > Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> writes: > >> I guess so. I'll have a look at splitting mail. > > Here is an example of how to split - for different > reasons, in including to get individual groups for > listbots. Note though that many listbots are available > as newsgroups so unless you already subscribe in an > unorganized way instead of splitting, I'd find the > "real" groups. > > (setq nnmail-split-methods > '(("zsh" "^\\(Cc\\|\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*zsh-\\(announce\\|workers\\|users\\)@zsh\.org.*") > ("debian.user" "^\\(Cc\\|\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*debian-user@lists\.debian\.org.*") > ("cc" "^\\(Cc\\|\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*\\(help-gnu-emacs\\|info-gnus-english\\)@gnu\.org.*") > ("spam-ooa" "^\\(Cc\\|\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*l4-hackers@os\.inf\.tu-dresden\.de.*") > ("emacs-w3m" "^Subject: \\[emacs-w3m.*") > ("mail.misc" "") )) That works nicely, thanks. > Accidently, you can implement a DWIM `r' and `F' Meanwhile, I noticed that `R` gives the expected result (To: is the mailing address). But what is still annoying me is to be careful to the keybinding I have to use depending on whether I'm answering a mail or a usenet article. > based on what group you are in = find out with > `gnus-group-group-name' - as in, something like, > > (if (member (gnus-group-group-name) '("nnml:mail.sent" > "nndraft:drafts") > ) ... Unfortunately, elisp is not my mother tongue. Suppose I'd like to use `R` as unique keybinding both in `debian.user` group (mailing list) and in `nntp+gmane:gmane.emacs.gnus.user` group (usenet forum), what would be the corresponding code? Thanks in anticipation. All the best. -- Denis _______________________________________________ info-gnus-english mailing list info-gnus-english@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list [not found] ` <mailman.13309.1415552050.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> @ 2014-11-15 13:20 ` Emanuel Berg 2014-11-17 13:07 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13874.1416229661.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2014-11-15 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> writes: > Meanwhile, I noticed that `R` gives the expected > result (To: is the mailing address). But what is > still annoying me is to be careful to the keybinding > I have to use depending on whether I'm answering a > mail or a usenet article. Yes, I agree that isn't good. In terms of programming, it is super-easy to fix as well. It is more an issue of knowing the domains (mails, listbots, news, and Gnus), which might not be that easy... like, at all! > Unfortunately, elisp is not my mother tongue. > Suppose I'd like to use `R` as unique keybinding > both in `debian.user` group (mailing list) and in > `nntp+gmane:gmane.emacs.gnus.user` group (usenet > forum), what would be the corresponding code? Again, Elisp doesn't have to be your mother tongue for this. However, if you are a perfectionist (as I am, so I'm not criticizing) perhaps you should make it your mother tongue... But try this: (require 'gnus-msg) (defun gnus-article-reply-dwim () (interactive) (if (gnus-article-header-value "X-Mailing-List") (gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original 1) (gnus-article-followup-with-original) )) (defun gnus-article-header-value (header) "Get the value of HEADER for the current article." (with-current-buffer gnus-original-article-buffer (gnus-fetch-field header) )) I just wrote and tried it, and it worked for debian.user (mailing list), alt.test (newsgroup), and a couple of inbox love letters (ordinary mail). It will work for ordinary mails and newsgroups, because that is the plain old `gnus-article-followup-with-original'. However I'm not sure if all mailing lists respect the X-Mailing-List header...? (Could be a place to add more such tests and OR them.) Also, I don't know what the 1 argument to `gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original' means because that isn't in the documentation, and I didn't feel like tracing it. It probably (?) has to do with doing things to several messages. I don't know if that should be 0 or 1 in this case. Last, `gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original' is in gnus-msg, and not gnus-sum. Just mentioning it as it looks a bit confusing :) -- underground experts united _______________________________________________ info-gnus-english mailing list info-gnus-english@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list 2014-11-15 13:20 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2014-11-17 13:07 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13874.1416229661.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Denis Bitouzé @ 2014-11-17 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english-mXXj517/zsQ Le 15/11/14 à 14h20, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> a écrit : > Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> writes: > >> Meanwhile, I noticed that `R` gives the expected >> result (To: is the mailing address). But what is >> still annoying me is to be careful to the keybinding >> I have to use depending on whether I'm answering a >> mail or a usenet article. > > Yes, I agree that isn't good. In terms of programming, > it is super-easy to fix as well. It is more an issue > of knowing the domains (mails, listbots, news, and > Gnus), which might not be that easy... like, at all! I can understand. >> Unfortunately, elisp is not my mother tongue. >> Suppose I'd like to use `R` as unique keybinding >> both in `debian.user` group (mailing list) and in >> `nntp+gmane:gmane.emacs.gnus.user` group (usenet >> forum), what would be the corresponding code? > > Again, Elisp doesn't have to be your mother tongue for > this. However, if you are a perfectionist (as I am, so > I'm not criticizing) perhaps you should make it your > mother tongue... Well, in another life, maybe ;) > But try this: > > (require 'gnus-msg) > > (defun gnus-article-reply-dwim () > (interactive) > (if (gnus-article-header-value "X-Mailing-List") > (gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original 1) > (gnus-article-followup-with-original) )) > > (defun gnus-article-header-value (header) > "Get the value of HEADER for the current article." > (with-current-buffer gnus-original-article-buffer > (gnus-fetch-field header) )) With which keybinding? > I just wrote and tried it, and it worked for > debian.user (mailing list), alt.test (newsgroup), and > a couple of inbox love letters (ordinary mail). It > will work for ordinary mails and newsgroups, because > that is the plain old > `gnus-article-followup-with-original'. Well, - for mailing lists, `F` doesn't work (ML address in CC only) and `R` does work, - for newsgroups, `F` does work and `R` doesn't work (I'm asked if I really want to reply by mail to article author), - for love letters, I cannot test (I receive too much of them, hence considered as spam and automatically deleted), - for break-off letters, `F` and `R` do work but behave differently: the sender's address is in TO but `F` adds my address in CC. > However I'm not sure if all mailing lists respect the X-Mailing-List > header...? (Could be a place to add more such tests and OR them.) Maybe that's the point. > Also, I don't know what the 1 argument to > `gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original' means > because that isn't in the documentation, and I didn't > feel like tracing it. It probably (?) has to do with > doing things to several messages. I don't know if that > should be 0 or 1 in this case. Unfortunately, I cannot help. > Last, `gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original' is in > gnus-msg, and not gnus-sum. Just mentioning it as it > looks a bit confusing :) Not more confusing than the rest ;) -- Denis _______________________________________________ info-gnus-english mailing list info-gnus-english@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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* Re: Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list [not found] ` <mailman.13874.1416229661.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> @ 2014-11-17 22:09 ` Emanuel Berg 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2014-11-17 22:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english Denis Bitouzé <dbitouze@wanadoo.fr> writes: >> Again, Elisp doesn't have to be your mother tongue >> for this. However, if you are a perfectionist (as I >> am, so I'm not criticizing) perhaps you should make >> it your mother tongue... > > Well, in another life, maybe ;) I'm saying, if you get bugged by details, it is a good idea to start working on how to fix them, because if you cannot there are a zillion details to bug you. > With which keybinding? gnus-article-reply-dwim is what you want to use. It is the one defun interactive so the only one that can be called with a keybinding or from the M-x prompt. If you want to play with it, here is how to set it to "R" (note: capital) in `gnus-article-mode-map' - if it works, perhaps should be made available from `gnus-summary-mode' (`gnus-summary-mode-map') as well... (define-key gnus-article-mode-map "R" 'gnus-article-reply-dwim) > - for mailing lists, `F` doesn't work (ML address in > CC only) and `R` does work, - for newsgroups, `F` > does work and `R` doesn't work (I'm asked if I > really want to reply by mail to article author), - > for love letters, I cannot test (I receive too much > of them, hence considered as spam and automatically > deleted), - for break-off letters, `F` and `R` do > work but behave differently: the sender's address is > in TO but `F` adds my address in CC. Yes, that all the base functionality is already there makes this a good case to do a DWIM command, the only thing that command will do is to determine the state and then use another command that is already implemented and tested and documented (well, almost). >> However I'm not sure if all mailing lists respect >> the X-Mailing-List header...? (Could be a place to >> add more such tests and OR them.) > > Maybe that's the point. Feel free to add more test (or test1 test1 ... testn) if the X-Mailing-List header isn't always there (perhaps it is, even). The gnus-article-header-value I also provided can be used to extract header values, or nil if the header isn't there. >> Also, I don't know what the 1 argument to >> `gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original' means >> because that isn't in the documentation, and I >> didn't feel like tracing it. It probably (?) has to >> do with doing things to several messages. I don't >> know if that should be 0 or 1 in this case. > > Unfortunately, I cannot help. Yes you can, start using it and report back if it doesn't work. But I know this it should be a 0, not a 1, so change that. I.e.: (defun gnus-article-reply-dwim () (interactive) (if (gnus-article-header-value "X-Mailing-List") (gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original 0) (gnus-article-followup-with-original) )) >> Last, `gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original' is >> in gnus-msg, and not gnus-sum. Just mentioning it >> as it looks a bit confusing :) > > Not more confusing than the rest ;) The confusing this is that `gnus-summary-reply-to-list-with-original' has the gnus-summary prefix, but it is in the gnus-msg Elisp file (the "require" stuff in the code). Emacs has a single namespace, which is why people insist on long prefixes to avoid collisions. Like if all package coders named their stuff get-data, that would be a mess instantly. But gnus-whatever-get-data, gnus-something-else-get-data, something-completely-different-get-data, in the beginning it feels funky especially if you come from a language like C with very short names, but if you do it enough you start to like it. So it doesn't only make sense, it is deceitful as well... -- underground experts united _______________________________________________ info-gnus-english mailing list info-gnus-english@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-11-17 22:09 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <m3vbmsvisc.fsf@example.com> 2014-11-06 15:08 ` Make `r` and `F` behave as `S L` when replying to a message from a mailing list Damien Wyart 2014-11-07 6:38 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13094.1415342343.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 2014-11-07 9:09 ` Damien Wyart 2014-11-07 18:53 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13173.1415386451.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 2014-11-07 19:25 ` Emanuel Berg 2014-11-09 16:53 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13309.1415552050.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 2014-11-15 13:20 ` Emanuel Berg 2014-11-17 13:07 ` Denis Bitouzé [not found] ` <mailman.13874.1416229661.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 2014-11-17 22:09 ` Emanuel Berg
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