From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.user/2541 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael R. Wolf Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.user Subject: Re: viewing embedded HTML and MIME with external viewers Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 03:49:55 -0700 Organization: LCL Software & Training, Inc. Message-ID: References: <87d6i834h8.fsf@o2.s.fr> <878yswfiwh.fsf@o2.s.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1138668937 15499 80.91.229.2 (31 Jan 2006 00:55:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:55:37 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: nobody Tue Jan 17 17:30:51 2006 Original-Path: quimby.gnus.org!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: sense-sea-megasub-1-477.oz.net Original-X-Trace: quimby.gnus.org 1053860465 18173 216.39.145.223 (25 May 2003 11:01:05 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@quimby.gnus.org Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 May 2003 11:01:05 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) Emacs/21.2 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Brv9u633KhCKPb1EFDQJAF3IJ98= Original-Xref: bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de gnus-emacs-gnus:2681 Original-Lines: 73 X-Gnus-Article-Number: 2681 Tue Jan 17 17:30:51 2006 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.user:2541 Archived-At: frederic.line@wanadoo.fr (Frédéric Liné) writes: [...] > Here are the results of the contest : > > * the winner is w3m : the page-setting is not perfect but better than > links'one. Many [img]. > > * 2nd lynx : many [img] everywhere in the text. Otherwise good. No > page-setting. > > * 3d links : no accent, and the page-setting is awful. > > * 4th w3 : as you said the lightest mistake in the HTML results in a > text renderind. > > w3m, lynx and w3 failed on the same messages but the failures are not > as so common as with w3. However they are not rare. Indeed, they are *not* rare!!! Not by a long shot. I'll even go so far as to say that they are common, and increasing. Increasing in number. Increasing in importance. It used to be that I could ignore all the HTML messages I received because they were SPAM, but at an increasing rate, I'm getting critical information in HTML -- my accountant, my father, my brother, my friends, consulting clients, business colleagues, invoices, and all other manner of business (i.e. practical dollar and cents) issues. I could choose to stay non-HTML, non-graphic, and expect (or even require) that my sources (the environment) change, but I know what happens to folks that don't change with the environment. Some folks call them dinasaurs. We all know that they're extinct, or on that path. I'd prefer to change *me*, and my reaction to the environment, because I can't change the *environment*. Call me practical, but until emacs can be a fully graphical browser, all the internal renderers are bound to be playing a follow-the-leader game of "catch up" to "real" browsers. It's just another game of reinvent-the-wheel, but forgetting that that "ultimate wheel" is the result of many iterations, and that all the mistakes made (and corrected) by external (that's right *external*) *real* browsers will have to be made (and possibly corrected, but in my observation of the state of the practice, ignored to linger and fester), thus reverting the game to pretend-to-reinvent-the-wheel-(to-make-it-better)-but-settle-for-a-flat-tire-(which-is-worse). BEGIN(important_core_of_message) So, given that the strategy of emulating a *real* browser will never work -- by design of the base strategy -- how do you launch a message body that contains raunchy HTML (graphics, audio, video and all) into a browser so that it can (so to speak) eat its own dog food (a trick it does very well)? END(important_core_of_message) Thanks, Michael P.S. I hope you can read my real frustration at needing a practical solution, not just sarcastic ranting, in my description. I'd love to stay inside emacs, having trained my fingers to it over about 20 years now, but I do realize that emacs as a graphical editor, however desirable, isn't likely to occur to solve the current, daily, problem of understanding and replying to messages from the graphical, ill-formed-HTML world. -- Michael R. Wolf All mammals learn by playing! MichaelRunningWolf@att.net