Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Joe Fineman]

I use Gnus to read my mail as well as to browse newsgroups.  When I
bring it up, the *Groups* buffer puts my mail between the 13th & 14th
of the 16 groups listed in ~/.newsrc -- e.g.

      [...]
      11: rec.music.folk 
       2: nnml:mail.misc 
      51: sci.lang 
       1: alt.books.george-orwell 
      53: soc.motss 

What is the reason for this curious behavior?  Is it possible to get
the mail "group" first in the list?

Also, is there an easy way -- short of naming away .newsrc -- to tell
Gnus, this time, just to bring up my mail & not bother with the
newsgroups?
-- 
---  Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||:  Life doesn't come with a meaning.  That's a user  :||
||:  modification and voids the warranty.              :||

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Bastien]

Joe Fineman writes:

> What is the reason for this curious behavior?  Is it possible to get
> the mail "group" first in the list?

If you're not using topics, just C-k the nnml group, and C-y it on the
top of the list.

> Also, is there an easy way -- short of naming away .newsrc -- to
> tell Gnus, this time, just to bring up my mail & not bother with the
> newsgroups?

  (gnus-no-server) should be enough.

You could also assign levels to your groups with S l. Then

  C-u [level] gnus 

will activate the groups that are below [level].

If you set your nnml groups to level 3 and your nntp groups to level
4, then C-u 3 gnus will show you your mails, and C-u 4 gnus will show
you mails+news.

-- 
Bastien

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Nov 09 2005, Bastien wrote:

> Joe Fineman writes:
>> Also, is there an easy way -- short of naming away .newsrc -- to
>> tell Gnus, this time, just to bring up my mail & not bother with the
>> newsgroups?
>
>   (gnus-no-server) should be enough.
[...]
> If you set your nnml groups to level 3 and your nntp groups to level
> 4, then C-u 3 gnus will show you your mails, and C-u 4 gnus will show
> you mails+news.

Just little correction:

,----[ (info "(gnus)Group Levels") ]
|    It is recommended that you keep all your mail groups (if any) on
| quite low levels (e.g. 1 or 2).
`----

,----[ (info "(gnus)The Server is Down") ]
|    If you know that the server is definitely down, or you just want to
| read your mail without bothering with the server at all, you can use the
| `gnus-no-server' command to start Gnus.  That might come in handy if
| you're in a hurry as well.  This command will not attempt to contact
| your primary server--instead, it will just activate all groups on level
| 1 and 2.  (You should preferably keep no native groups on those two
| levels.) Also *note Group Levels::.
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Bastien]

Reiner Steib writes:

> Just little correction:
>
> ,----[ (info "(gnus)Group Levels") ]
> |    It is recommended that you keep all your mail groups (if any) on
> | quite low levels (e.g. 1 or 2).
> `----

Any hints about the "why" ?  I don't see any justification of this in
the manual.

So far I've been setting mail groups at different levels - including 3
and 4 - and everything works quite well.  

*Except* that, from time to time, new mails are marked as old mails
(it happens in very large mail groups and even with mail groups at
level 1 & 2)...

Could this strange behavior be related to the above recommandation?

-- 
Bastien

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Nov 09 2005, Bastien wrote:

> Reiner Steib writes:
[...]
>> ,----[ (info "(gnus)Group Levels") ]
>> |    It is recommended that you keep all your mail groups (if any) on
>> | quite low levels (e.g. 1 or 2).
>> `----
>
> Any hints about the "why" ?  I don't see any justification of this in
> the manual.

I think it's because `gnus-no-server' activates groups at level 1 and
2, see the internal function `gnus-no-server-1':

,----[ <f1> f gnus-no-server-1 RET ]
| gnus-no-server-1 is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `gnus-start.el'.
| (gnus-no-server-1 &optional arg slave)
| 
| Read network news.
| If arg is a positive number, Gnus will use that as the
| startup level.  If arg is nil, Gnus will be started at level 2.
| If arg is non-nil and not a positive number, Gnus will
| prompt the user for the name of an NNTP server to use.
| As opposed to `gnus', this command will not connect to the local server.
`----

More precise, it should read "`gnus-level-default-subscribed' minus
one" instead of "2".

> So far I've been setting mail groups at different levels - including 3
> and 4 - and everything works quite well.  
>
> *Except* that, from time to time, new mails are marked as old mails
> (it happens in very large mail groups and even with mail groups at
> level 1 & 2)...
>
> Could this strange behavior be related to the above recommandation?

Probably not.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Joe Fineman]

Bastien <bastien@xxx.fr> writes:

> Joe Fineman writes:
>
>> What is the reason for this curious behavior?  

[Referring to the fact that my mail came up in an odd place in the
list of newsgroups.]

>> Is it possible to get the mail "group" first in the list?
>
> If you're not using topics, just C-k the nnml group, and C-y it on
> the top of the list.

I rashly tried this -- rashly, in that I do not know the meaning of
the phrase "using topics".  C-k got rid of the nnml group, but I
couldn't bring it back, even after doing toggle-read-only.  I tried
pasting the line back in, but Gnus couldn't see it -- it kept saying
there was no group on the line.

Now, Gnus downloads my mail as before, but I can't read it within Gnus
-- I have to go to ~/mail/Mail/misc.  Restarting Gnus, or Emacs, does
no good.

Can someone help me get back to normal?
-- 
---  Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||:  Piracy, n.:  Commerce without its follyswaddles, just as God  :||
||:  made it.                                                      :||

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Bastien]

Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net> writes:

> I rashly tried this -- rashly, in that I do not know the meaning of
> the phrase "using topics".

See (info "(gnus)Group Topics")

> C-k got rid of the nnml group, but I couldn't bring it back, even
> after doing toggle-read-only.

Did you try to copy the nnml group with C-y as i mentionned?

> I tried pasting the line back in, but Gnus couldn't see it -- it
> kept saying there was no group on the line.

What about `j' in the summary buffer?  Then you enter the name of your
group - e.g. "nnml:mail.misc" - and toggle subscription with `u'.

> Now, Gnus downloads my mail as before, but I can't read it within Gnus
> -- I have to go to ~/mail/Mail/misc.  Restarting Gnus, or Emacs, does
> no good.

In fact.  Your mails are still in the mail.misc group, you just need
to subscribe to this group again.

If you can't find it by jumping on it with `j', list killed groups
with `A k'.

> Can someone help me get back to normal?

Hope this help... (i feel guilty about the C-k hint, but i don't know
any other way to rearrange groups order)

-- 
Bastien

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Joe Fineman]

Bastien <bastien@xxx.fr> writes:

>> C-k got rid of the nnml group, but I couldn't bring it back, even
>> after doing toggle-read-only.
>
> Did you try to copy the nnml group with C-y as i mentionned?

Yes, but it didn't work -- it wasn't in the kill ring.  Possibly I
didn't try soon enough; I forgot to do toggle-read-only in advance.

> What about `j' in the summary buffer?  Then you enter the name of
> your group - e.g. "nnml:mail.misc" - and toggle subscription with
> `u'.

That worked.  %^)

> Hope this help... (i feel guilty about the C-k hint, but i don't
> know any other way to rearrange groups order)

No need to feel guilty -- I probably neglected something obvious.  I
greatly appreciate the existence of Emacs & Gnus, but owing to a sort
of mindblindness, and to not being part of the culture, I have a lot
of difficulty finding my way thru documentation and understanding &
following advice.

Thank you very much for your help & patience.
-- 
---  Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||:  Where there is too much, something is missing.  :||

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Bastien]

Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net> writes:

>> Did you try to copy the nnml group with C-y as i mentionned?
>
> Yes, but it didn't work -- it wasn't in the kill ring.  Possibly I
> didn't try soon enough; I forgot to do toggle-read-only in advance.

Anyway, `toggle-read-only' seems odd to me here.  Gnus implements its
own C-k and C-y. Killing and yanking groups does not mean *writing* in
the group buffer...

> That worked.  %^)

Great!

> I have a lot of difficulty finding my way thru documentation and
> understanding & following advice.

Dont forget M-x apropos RET gnus.*whatever

> Thank you very much for your help & patience.

No problem!

-- 
Bastien

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Nov 11 2005, Joe Fineman wrote:

> I rashly tried this -- rashly, in that I do not know the meaning of
> the phrase "using topics".

(info "(gnus)Group Topics")

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Position of mail in *Groups* buffer

[Joe Fineman]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+from-uce@imap.cc> writes:

> (info "(gnus)Group Topics")

Thank you.  %^)
-- 
---  Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||:  Setting too good an example is a kind of slander seldom  :||
||:  forgotten.                                               :||