Re: gnus and UTF-8

Re: gnus and UTF-8

[A. Lucien Meyers]

Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> writes:

> How can I make my gnus (Oort 0.05, Xemacs 21.4.8) recognize and
> decipher UTF-8 ?
> 
> What I do now is saving the message to a mailbox and reading it with
> mutt...

After reading your posts, deciding to take post.el for a ride.
Installation was no problem but how does one use it, please?
By "use it" I don't mean doing M-x post-mode .

Lucien
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Re: post Was: gnus and UTF-8

[A. Lucien Meyers]

Glyn Millington <glyn@millingtons.org> writes:

> a.l.meyers@consult-meyers.com (A. Lucien Meyers) writes:
>
>>>> After reading your posts, deciding to take post.el for a ride.
>>>> Installation was no problem but how does one use it, please?  By "use
>>>> it" I don't mean doing M-x post-mode .
>>>
>>> (require 'post)
>>>
>>> Assuming you are using Xemacs or gnuclient as your editor from mutt,
>>> you will get better highlighting and a menu of neat things in the
>>> menubar ;-) Bu its ages since I played with it
>>
>> IIUC post integrates emacs better from mutt, not vice-versa. Is this
>> correct? IOW mutt calls emacs, not emacs which calls mutt as its
>> mailer.
>
> That's right! I'm sorry if I misled you on this.  For the closer kind of
> integration you need to run VM or RMail or the Great and Glorious Gnus.

Thanks, Glyn. Gnus is my standard mailer and news reader. I like the
"look and feel" of VM but AFAICS it supports neither mh nor maildir
type backend formats. And I am a firm adherent of: "1 mail, 1 file."

Have also used the vim-slrn-mutt combination extensively but it simply
does not offer the same integration as emacs, although the individual
pieces are IMHO very good. So I use viper-mode in emacs.

One small question if you don't mind: how can I get the gnus summary
buffer to show me not only the senders but also the addressees of all
messages? Would like this as default.

Lucien
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Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[Roger Levy]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai   Großjohann) writes:

> Roger Levy <rog@stanford.edu> writes:
> 
> > However, I have tried setting gnus-ignored-from-addresses to "Roger
> > Levy", to no avail.  I still get "Roger Levy" for all articles and
> > emails that I've written.  I can only conclude that I don't know how
> > to write regular expressions in Emacs Lisp.
> 
> Which backend do you use?  Do you get the "->" things for new
> messages, perhaps?  Does it help to do `g' on the server (it takes a
> long time)?

Thank you, thank you!  Regenerating the server fixed things completely.

This has definitely exposed my ignorance about the structure of the
server and its interaction with Gnus.  I have no idea what the "data
structures" of the server are.  Where should I read about that (I use
nnml)?

Roger

Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[Roger Levy]

Karl Kleinpaste <karl@charcoal.com> writes:

> Roger Levy <rog@stanford.edu> writes:
> > This has definitely exposed my ignorance about the structure of the
> > server and its interaction with Gnus.  I have no idea what the "data
> > structures" of the server are.  Where should I read about that (I use
> > nnml)?
> 
> Because of the confusion caused over this, I just added a little bit
> of extra text to the manual about regeneration via the server buffer,
> and included a note near the bottom to distinguish the comment about
> overview.fmt as being specifically for news admins.

Extra text in these places would be really helpful.  Where can I take
a look at the extra text you added, to see if it clarifies things?

Roger

Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[Kai Großjohann]

"A. L. Meyers" <nospam.look@replyto.because.this.is.invalid> writes:

> Kai, is the variable gnus-ignored-from-addresses fuzzy? Does putting
> "meyers" include "Meyers", "A. L. Meyers", etc.? After doing this and
> noticing the new setting, IIUC I must enter the server buffer and do "g"
> on each server to get the config to take full, "retroactive" effect.

It is not "fuzzy" in the sense of Fuzzy Logic.  But it is a regular
expression, and so setting it to "x" will match all From headers
containing the character x.  And then there is this case-fold-search
issue -- Emacs often ignores case when doing regexp matching.

kai
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Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[A. L. Meyers]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> A. L. Meyers <nospam.look@replyto.because.this.is.invalid> writes:
>
>> Thanks, Kai. When I do "g" on the nnml server in the server buffer, I
>> consistently get the following error message":
>>
>> Arithmetic range error: "truncate", 1019140519.0
>>
>> How can I correct this, please?
>
> I have no idea.  Can you send a backtrace?  Maybe somebody else knows...
>
> kai

My crude cludgy "solution" was to delete all the .overview files and
then repeat the above procedure. Worked.

Lucien
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Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[A. L. Meyers]

Can we take this one step further, please?

How must one configure the gnus-summary-line-format to get gnus to
substitute not only To for From in cases of emails according to
gnus-ignored-from-headers, but in addition to substitute Newsgroups for
> From in news articles in a similar manner?

IOW we end up with meaningful information in the summary line
everywhere, unless we are narcists and just love to see our own name
again and again. ;-)

Lucien
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Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[Karl Kleinpaste]

A. L. Meyers <nospam.look@replyto.because.this.is.invalid> writes:
> How must one configure the gnus-summary-line-format to get gnus to
> substitute not only To for From in cases of emails according to
> gnus-ignored-from-headers, but in addition to substitute Newsgroups for
> From in news articles in a similar manner?

gnus-extra-headers and nnmail-extra-headers take care of this
situation in the same way regardless, with %f taking care of whichever
of these is appropriate.

The operation of %f is based on what data is found in the overviews.
If you are looking at your archived outgoing messages, and if both
-extra-headers variables include To and Newsgroups, then To and
Newsgroups will be shown in summaries, rather than your own name.

For Usenet postings off your server, unless the server's overviews
contain data for Newsgroups, you'll still be stuck seeing your own
name.  That's where you need to ask your news administrator to do you
a favor by adding "Newsgroups:full" to the end of overview.fmt.  It's
not really an expensive addition to overviews, but newsadmins are a
touchy lot.

Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[Russ Allbery]

Karl Kleinpaste <karl@charcoal.com> writes:

> For Usenet postings off your server, unless the server's overviews
> contain data for Newsgroups, you'll still be stuck seeing your own name.
> That's where you need to ask your news administrator to do you a favor
> by adding "Newsgroups:full" to the end of overview.fmt.  It's not really
> an expensive addition to overviews, but newsadmins are a touchy lot.

It does depend on the size of the server and the number of people using
that information.  You're adding 20-odd bytes per article to the overview
size, which compared to the References header generally isn't *too* much,
but it can slow overview download.

Given that Xref is already in overview, it's harder to justify adding
Newsgroups as well.  (I think Content-Type is actually more useful, mostly
for client-side filtering.)

-- 
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Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[Karl Kleinpaste]

A. L. Meyers <nospam.look@replyto.because.this.is.invalid> writes:
> Thanks, Karl. Currently I pull news from an ISP. Do I have to run my
> own news server to utilize adding "Newsgroups:full" in overview.fmt ?

That depends on the responsiveness of your server admin and the
resources his hardware has.  If he's responsive and helpful, and
doesn't mind the (generally very mild) expansion to overviews -- we're
talking about an average couple dozen bytes/line, which I feel
vanishes into the noise of the graph when compared to the monstrous
References data one finds in e.g. talk.politics.* -- then just ask for
the additional support and away you go.

I run my own server, and have for many years, but I'm one of those
touchy ones when it comes to my Usenet environment. :-)  If you choose
to run your own server, you'll have to deal with the issues of
managing a "suck"-style feed from your ISP's server to yourself, of
course.  This is a bit of a chore to set up, more than a lot of people
are willing to put up with.

Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[A. L. Meyers]

Karl Kleinpaste <karl@charcoal.com> writes:

> A. L. Meyers <nospam.look@replyto.because.this.is.invalid> writes:
>> Thanks, Karl. Currently I pull news from an ISP. Do I have to run my
>> own news server to utilize adding "Newsgroups:full" in overview.fmt ?
>
> That depends on the responsiveness of your server admin and the
> resources his hardware has. If he's responsive and helpful, and
> doesn't mind the (generally very mild) expansion to overviews -- we're
> talking about an average couple dozen bytes/line, which I feel
> vanishes into the noise of the graph when compared to the monstrous
> References data one finds in e.g. talk.politics.* -- then just ask for
> the additional support and away you go.
>
> I run my own server, and have for many years, but I'm one of those
> touchy ones when it comes to my Usenet environment. :-) If you choose
> to run your own server, you'll have to deal with the issues of
> managing a "suck"-style feed from your ISP's server to yourself, of
> course. This is a bit of a chore to set up, more than a lot of people
> are willing to put up with.

So, if I have understood you correctly, setting up my own server
capable of grokking overview.fmt means, in addition to configuring inn
(no simple task AFAICS from the docs), using another tool, e. g. suck,
between my ISP and inn. Correct?

Whew!! So many brain cells more devoted to IT.

Lucien
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Re: "To:" instead of "From:" in the summary buffer (was: post Was: gnus and UTF-8)

[Kai Großjohann]

A. L. Meyers <nospam.look@replyto.because.this.is.invalid> writes:

> How must one configure the gnus-summary-line-format to get gnus to
> substitute not only To for From in cases of emails according to
> gnus-ignored-from-headers, but in addition to substitute Newsgroups for
> From in news articles in a similar manner?

It should work automatically, if the news server provides the
required data in the overview.

That's where the mysterious comment about Overview:Full and so on
comes in that is only for the INN server admin...

kai
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Re: gnus and UTF-8

[Kai Großjohann]

Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> writes:

> How can I make my gnus (Oort 0.05, Xemacs 21.4.8) recognize and
> decipher UTF-8 ?

I think that Mule-UCS exists as a package for XEmacs, too.  Install
it and see what happens.  (It teaches XEmacs about UTF-8, so Gnus can
just use it.)

kai
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Re: gnus and UTF-8

[Erwan David]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> writes:
>
>> How can I make my gnus (Oort 0.05, Xemacs 21.4.8) recognize and
>> decipher UTF-8 ?
>
> I think that Mule-UCS exists as a package for XEmacs, too.  Install
> it and see what happens.  (It teaches XEmacs about UTF-8, so Gnus can
> just use it.)
>
> kai

thanks to you and Simon, it works.

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