Re: Charset again!

Re: Charset again!

[Kai Großjohann]

Wolfgang Bornath <wobo@wolf-b.de> writes:

> '(gnus-default-charset (quote iso-8859-15))
>  '(gnus-default-posting-charset (quote iso-8859-15))
>
> Gnus ignores it and my postings go out with 8859-1. This causes a bit
> of problem in the groups I spend some time because all other Users use
> 8859-15 and so the German Umlauts and the EURO sign are not shown.

These two variables are for non-Mule Emacsen only, but Emacs 21.1 is
always with Mule.

Does Emacs use iso-8859-15 when you have a Euro sign in your message?

Emacs goes by the characters in your message to decide which charset
you use.  If you type an iso-8859-1 ä, then the posting will have
that encoding, if you type an iso-8859-15 ä, then the posting will
have another encoding.

You could set an iso-8859-15 locale to get *-15 characters by
default.  For example, I have LC_CTYPE=de_DE@euro, and as you can see
I'm sending out stuff in *-15.

kai
-- 
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Re: Charset again!

[Wolfgang Bornath]

Had to do a F'up on my posting:

Before I made the changes gnus switched automagical to us-ascii as
posting charset if I did not use any german chars like Umlaute or
Eurosign. Now it doesn't do that any more, it stays with 8859-15.

wobo
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Re: Emacs, Gnus, and european charsets (was Charset again!)

[A. L. Meyers]

Marcus Frings <mf-usenet@gmx.net> writes:

> Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> > AFAIK there are Debian packages for Oort.
> 
> Yes, this is correct. These packages are neither included in
> woody/testing nor in unstable but they can be obtained from the
> homepage of the Debian maintainer.

Tried to add the indicated lines to my /etc/apt/sources.list but apt
refused them.  Would much appreciate URL for the Debian maintainer's
page to download oort gnus packages from.  :-)

Lucien
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Re: Emacs, Gnus, and european charsets (was Charset again!)

[Marcus Frings]

A. L. Meyers <nospam.look@replyto.because.this.is.invalid> wrote:
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ever
	      considered using a valid address? Mailbounces suck!

> Tried to add the indicated lines to my /etc/apt/sources.list but apt
> refused them.  Would much appreciate URL for the Debian maintainer's
> page to download oort gnus packages from.  :-)

This is for direct download:
http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/packages/binary-all/

HTH,
Marcus
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Re: Emacs, Gnus, and european charsets (was Charset again!)

[A. L. Meyers]

hobbes@easynet.be (Rémi Letot) writes:

> "A. L. Meyers" <nospam.look@replyto.because.this.is.invalid> writes:
> 
> > Marcus Frings <mf-usenet@gmx.net> writes:
> >
> >> Reiner Steib <4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > AFAIK there are Debian packages for Oort.
> >> 
> >> Yes, this is correct. These packages are neither included in
> >> woody/testing nor in unstable but they can be obtained from the
> >> homepage of the Debian maintainer.
> >
> > Tried to add the indicated lines to my /etc/apt/sources.list but apt
> > refused them.  Would much appreciate URL for the Debian maintainer's
> > page to download oort gnus packages from.  :-)
> 
> deb http://people.debian.org/~srivasta packages/

Thanks, Rémi, works like a charm.  Is there a similar source for Debian
packages of CVS GNU Emacs and if yes where?  :-)

Lucien
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Re: Charset again!

[Kai Großjohann]

Wolfgang Bornath <wobo@wolf-b.de> writes:

> 3. I searched /etc/emacs/site-start.el and found
>
> ;; Use the following for i18n
> (standard-display-european t)

This is bogus and outdated and harmful.¹  Comment out this line, and
then complain to the guy who did it.  Surely it doesn't make sense to
set it in a site-wide startup file.

(It was meaningful in Emacs 19.34, but these days it's different.)

kai

¹ Some people want it, but I'm betting you don't.  The fact that you
are complaining about its ill effects tells me I'm right ;-)
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Re: Charset again!

[Wolfgang Bornath]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai  Großjohann) writes:

> Wolfgang Bornath <wobo@wolf-b.de> writes:
> 
> > 3. I searched /etc/emacs/site-start.el and found
> >
> > ;; Use the following for i18n
> > (standard-display-european t)
> 
> This is bogus and outdated and harmful.¹  Comment out this line, and
> then complain to the guy who did it.  Surely it doesn't make sense to
> set it in a site-wide startup file.
> 
> (It was meaningful in Emacs 19.34, but these days it's different.)

This may be the case here. After all this testing and retesting I
think one of the Mandrake guys did something deep inside the config
files of emacs that is causing this chaos here. Maybe he wanted to do
something good for us europeans by this but he did not.

I'll try without this line. If it takes much longer I may switch to
slrn and vim!
(Shhhh! This line was meant to threaten my emacs!)

wobo
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Re: Charset again!

[A. L. Meyers]

Wolfgang Bornath <wobo@wolf-b.de> writes:

(snip)

> I'll try without this line. If it takes much longer I may switch to
> slrn and vim!
> (Shhhh! This line was meant to threaten my emacs!)

Still use viper-mode in emacs and, actually, as a pure editor, found vim
preferable.  OTOH, emacs offers an integrated environment.  But are you
suggesting that vim-slrn-mutt now offer full iso-8859-15 and utf-8
support transparently without all the contusions emacs still puts us
through (although we know emacs and for that matter xemacs developers
are working hard on these issues :-) ) ?

Lucien
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Re: Charset again!

[Kai Großjohann]

Wolfgang Bornath <wobo@wolf-b.de> writes:

> OK, I cut that out and sent 3 tests:
>
> 1. text only plain us gives us-ascii, good.
> 2. text with eurosign gives 8859-15, good.
> 3. text with Umlaute but without eurosign gives 8859-15, BAD!

Well, hm.  Why is it bad?

Anyhow, maybe you are more successful by turning on
unify-8859-on-decoding-mode.  For this, you need some version of
ucs-tables.el that's not in Emacs 21.2, and possibly also some
version of utf-8.el.  Oort Gnus includes the necessary ucs-tables.el
in its contrib directory.

kai
-- 
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