From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (acme.spoerlein.net [188.72.220.29]) by krisdoz.my.domain (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6DK6Egx025889 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from roadrunner.spoerlein.net ([93.107.12.182]) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o6DK65sF040896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:06:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uqs@spoerlein.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=spoerlein.net; s=dkim200908; t=1279051573; bh=PJ8kWS6vTgy19d4aT0x/peyaEIAGjwUV/9YynVegsxE=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:In-Reply-To; b=T5KjN3snYCd50yCNa9nglgrVZvsiMDERnyWYCyd7SPHtw1Y0mTZH+HkgqeFR6wrQ/ 8zSfNauL/CVoP3zVKTTUbeW1S6kzn1aANxTEy80EwvzymoSy/88ITzIIqNkozhJxMd ruf8XQ8z27vhFL0YOB8lyFIZQGAO5r1W4qO9geCM= Received: from roadrunner.spoerlein.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by roadrunner.spoerlein.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o6DJNxBi027351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:24:00 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from uqs@spoerlein.net) Received: (from uqs@localhost) by roadrunner.spoerlein.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id o6DJNgPf027341 for discuss@mdocml.bsd.lv; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:23:42 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from uqs@spoerlein.net) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:23:41 +0100 From: Ulrich =?utf-8?B?U3DDtnJsZWlu?= To: discuss@mdocml.bsd.lv Subject: Re: Raw UTF-8? Message-ID: <20100713192341.GB25163@roadrunner.spoerlein.net> References: <4c33f0f0.0c87970a.3458.fffff43f@mx.google.com> <20100707185815.GA19725@iris.usta.de> <20100707191807.GA18154@britannica.bec.de> <20100707211212.GC19725@iris.usta.de> <20100707211725.GA29241@britannica.bec.de> <20100709210539.GA2465@roadrunner.spoerlein.net> <4C3A47E9.1080106@bsd.lv> X-Mailinglist: mdocml-discuss Reply-To: discuss@mdocml.bsd.lv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4C3A47E9.1080106@bsd.lv> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) On Mon, 12.07.2010 at 00:38:33 +0200, Kristaps Džonsons wrote: > > This also works fine with FreeBSD's groff when rendering to UTF-8 aware > > terminals using -Tutf8 (and of course in -Tps and -Thtml mode). > > > > I really hope the sentiment expressed in this thread is in jest, as I > > would stop considering mandoc(1) a viable alternative for FreeBSD's man > > subsystem if it will never support UTF-8 output (and then render \(:o as > > ö like it should). > > I think there's a little confusion here. I see Ingo just wrote and > answered most questions. Well, no point in wasting a response... > > The state of affairs follows: > > - mandoc/groff accept and understand ASCII input > - mandoc/groff [sometimes] accept but DO NOT understand non-ASCII input > > That UTF-8 input renders on your screen is coincidence: you happen to > have a UTF-8 terminal and groff hasn't puked on the characters. You > implicitly assume your readers' mediums have the same capabilities. > > Now for the \[foo] syntax. First, it exists. Second, it covers most > European characters. Is it general? No. Why let it stay? Because it > lets \(:u be both "u" (my terminal) and ü (e.g. www output). If you > don't use the \[foo] escapes, you're screwing readers. Yes, we're > screwing non-western-European manual writers ("me") already, but this is > not a problem we need to solve right now. I completely agree here, there's nothing fancy we could or should do regarding input. > Now for output and The Good Stuff. > > -Tutf8 is not hard. I think I can manage this in coming releases > without any negative effects. In fact, it will cut the binary size, as > I'd key special chars as integers and rewrite them on the fly into > UTF-8, Latin-1, or whatever, for all outputs. Sounds great, do you also plan on adding "special chars" support to -Tps (mostly for latin1 accents and umlauts)? Regards, Uli -- To unsubscribe send an email to discuss+unsubscribe@mdocml.bsd.lv