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From: наб <nabijaczleweli@nabijaczleweli.xyz>
To: tech@mandoc.bsd.lv
Subject: Re: Should .At 32v rather be [AT&T] UNIX/32V rather than Version 32 AT&T UNIX?
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 13:54:47 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210819115447.sxizpgfuioltpnuj@tarta.nabijaczleweli.xyz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8F26DC01-86AD-420E-B6E2-658C53B0F5C7@alum.mit.edu>

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On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 11:34:16PM -0700, Guy Harris wrote:
> In what way does calling it "Version 32V AT&T UNIX" bundle it in with V[1-7]?
In the way that "Version 32V AT&T UNIX" is way too close to
"Version 7 AT&T UNIX". The latter binds very strongly, because that's
the systems most've usually heard about. It's an odd version number to
keep that format, because it's so much larger than anything before it,
because it's not a version of anything because it's a direct port of V7
to the 32-bit VAX.

> (BTW, tsort was in V7, but I digress.)
Oh, so it was! I've manged to miss it when I last looked at the dumps
somehow. That brings down the utilities that originate from 32V to… 0?

> However:
> 
> > The designations of early unices originate in their manuals;
> > how does 32V stack up here?
> 
> Yes, Bell Labs appeared to call it UNIX/32V, not Version 32V AT&T UNIX.
> 
> However however, if the goal was to be compatible with current versions of -mdoc, then calling it Version 32V AT&T UNIX achieves that goal.  That appears to date back at least as far as 4.4-Lite-2, from a quick "egrep -i 32v" in Lite-2's /usr/src/share/tmac directory.
I mean, the goal, originally, of anything of this class is to be
visually-compatible with established implementations. This I will not
disagree with, and it's a good goal.

But the end-goal is to be correct, which I believe the current string
is not, and I'm inclined to believe that it was a throwaway decision
nobody remembers because it also starts with a number, like the other
ones.

Changing it doesn't have far-reaching layouting compatibility problems,
but now that I think about it, AT&T starts with a vowel and Version
with a consonant; I'd classify this as "meh".

The entirety of NetBSD src/ mentions \b32v\b exactly once:
-- >8 --
nabijaczleweli@tarta:~/store/NetBSD/src$ grep -RE '\b32v\b'
lib/libc/stdlib/alloca.3:.\" The function appeared in 32v, pwb and pwb.2 and in 3bsd 4bsd
share/man/man4/man4.vax/dz.4:.At 32v .
share/tmac/doc2html:.   if "\\$1"32v" Version 32V <code>AT&T UNIX</code>\\$2
share/tmac/doc2html:.   if "\\$1"32v" Version 32V <code>AT&T UNIX</code>
external/bsd/mdocml/dist/att.c: LINE("32v",     "Version\\~32V AT&T UNIX");
external/bsd/mdocml/dist/mdoc.7:.It Cm v[1-7] | 32v
external/gpl2/groff/dist/tmac/doc-syms:.ds doc-str-At-32v \&Version\~32V
external/gpl2/groff/dist/tmac/doc-syms:.as doc-str-At-32v " \*[doc-Tn-font-size]AT&T UNIX\*[doc-str-At]
external/gpl2/groff/dist/tmac/groff_mdoc.man:.Dl 32v, v1, v2, v3, v4, v5, v6, v7, V, V.1, V.2, V.3, V.4
-- >8 --

Illumos does so 0 times. FreeBSD thrice:
-- >8 --
nabijaczleweli@tarta:~/uwu/freebsd-src$ git grep '\b32v\b'
contrib/mandoc/att.c:   LINE("32v",     "Version\\~32V AT&T UNIX");
contrib/mandoc/mdoc.7:.It Cm v[1-7] | 32v
lib/libc/stdlib/alloca.3:.At 32v .
lib/libc/stdlib/alloca.3:.\" The function appeared in 32v, pwb and pwb.2 and in 3bsd 4bsd
share/man/man7/sticky.7:.At 32v .
Binary file sys/contrib/openzfs/tests/zfs-tests/tests/functional/cli_root/zpool_create/draidcfg.gz matches
usr.bin/paste/paste.1:.At 32v .
-- >8 --

All of these are roughly "A dz driver appeared in [At 32v].",
so I don't think this is a problem.

> Presumably, from the Debian bug you filed, your goal is to get all implementations of -mdoc changed, not just the mdoc implementation.
There are two mdoc implementations in Debian ‒ groff and mdoc ‒
so I could care less about other independent implementations
(are there any?). If either of them go through I also plan on posting
a similar patch to NetBSD.

Illumos and FreeBSD use mandoc in addition to OpenBSD.
Am I missing any free system?

> (Note, BTW, that calling V7 "Version 7 AT&T UNIX" also dates back to Lite-2's -mdoc (if not earlier); I'm not sure whether the *operating system* had an official name, or whether it was just the UNIX Programmer's Manual that came with it being the Seventh Edition of the manual.)
.At in -mdoc first appeared in 4.4BSD-Alpha as:
-- >8 --
.de At
.nr cF \\n(.f
.nr cZ \\n(.s
.ds aa \&\f\\n(cF\s\\n(cZ
.if \\n(.$==2 \{\
.       if "\\$1"32v" \&Version 32V \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa\\$2
.       if "\\$1"v6"  \&Version 6 \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa\\$2
.       if "\\$1"v7"  \&Version 7 \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa\\$2
.       if "\\$1"V"  \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa\\$2
.       if "\\$1"V.1"  \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V.1 \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa\\$2
.       if "\\$1"V.4"  \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V.4 \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa\\$2
.\}
.if \\n(.$==1 \{\
.       if "\\$1"32v" \&Version 32V \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa
.       if "\\$1"v6"  \&Version 6 \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa
.       if "\\$1"v7"  \&Version 7 \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa
.       if "\\$1"V"  \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa
.       if "\\$1"V.1"  \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V.1 \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa
.       if "\\$1"V.4"  \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V.4 \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa
.\}
.if \\n(.$==0 \{\
\&\\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa
.\}
..
-- >8 --
And hasn't changed up to and including 4.4BSD-Lite2.

But, no, the research UNIX line didn't have explicit names beyond the
manual versions (cf. [1]), but given the manual being distributed with
the system, the difference is moot if you consider common usage.

Best,
наб

[1]: http://ftp.okass.net/pub/mirror/minnie.tuhs.org/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v5/v5man.pdf
     vs
	 http://ftp.okass.net/pub/mirror/minnie.tuhs.org/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v1/manintro.pdf and
	 http://ftp.okass.net/pub/mirror/minnie.tuhs.org/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v1/UNIX_ProgrammersManual_Nov71.pdf
	 vs
	 http://ftp.okass.net/pub/mirror/minnie.tuhs.org/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v2/v2man.pdf

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  reply	other threads:[~2021-08-19 11:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 6+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-18 18:46 наб
2021-08-19  6:34 ` Guy Harris
2021-08-19 11:54   ` наб [this message]
2021-08-19 15:13     ` Ingo Schwarze
2021-09-01 16:53       ` наб
2021-09-02 12:40         ` Ingo Schwarze

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