From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 28171 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2021 15:13:07 -0000 Received: from bsd.lv (HELO mandoc.bsd.lv) (66.111.2.12) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Aug 2021 15:13:07 -0000 Received: from fantadrom.bsd.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mandoc.bsd.lv (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0eb8b0c8 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 10:13:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from scc-mailout-kit-01.scc.kit.edu (scc-mailout-kit-01.scc.kit.edu [129.13.231.81]) by mandoc.bsd.lv (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 521d5a47 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 10:13:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from hekate.asta.kit.edu ([141.3.145.153] helo=hekate.usta.de) by scc-mailout-kit-01.scc.kit.edu with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (envelope-from ) id 1mGjj5-0005mo-5b; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 17:13:04 +0200 Received: from donnerwolke.asta.kit.edu ([141.3.145.61] helo=donnerwolke.usta.de) by hekate.usta.de with esmtp (Exim 4.92.2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGjj3-0004r4-FB; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 17:13:01 +0200 Received: from athene.asta.kit.edu ([141.3.145.60] helo=athene.usta.de) by donnerwolke.usta.de with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGjj3-0006Tz-A5; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 17:13:01 +0200 Received: from localhost (athene.usta.de [local]) by athene.usta.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 3d67547c; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 17:13:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 17:13:01 +0200 From: Ingo Schwarze To: nabijaczleweli@nabijaczleweli.xyz Cc: tech@mandoc.bsd.lv Subject: Re: Should .At 32v rather be [AT&T] UNIX/32V rather than Version 32 AT&T UNIX? Message-ID: <20210819151301.GB56790@athene.usta.de> References: <20210818184652.gp3apndkyoa2m3kc@tarta.nabijaczleweli.xyz> <8F26DC01-86AD-420E-B6E2-658C53B0F5C7@alum.mit.edu> <20210819115447.sxizpgfuioltpnuj@tarta.nabijaczleweli.xyz> X-Mailinglist: mandoc-tech Reply-To: tech@mandoc.bsd.lv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210819115447.sxizpgfuioltpnuj@tarta.nabijaczleweli.xyz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) Hello Nab, the string "UNIX/32V" actually makes sense in retrospect because many later operating systems used strings like "systemname/architecture" to distinguish between ports of "systemname" to different architectures. Consequently, i do not object to using this string "UNIX/32V" as part of the output from .At 32v . I do insist, however, that the printed string must contain "AT&T". While UNIX/32V is reasonably well known in general, there may still be people hearing it for the first time and not knowing it came from AT&T. Using "AT&T UNIX/32V" would seem like an improvement to me because it makes clear that "32V" is not a version number. Then again, i think printing "Version 7 AT&T UNIX/32V" might be even better because some people may not know that 32v is just a port of v7, and it is not that much longer. You might worry that the "32V" is easy to overlook in "Version 7 AT&T UNIX/32V". But i would argue that manual pages need to be read attentively in general. Small differences in wording are often crucial, and if a hasty reader misses this particular detail, that's unlikely to have dire consequences. The way to make this change is to open a feature request at https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=groff unless somebody has already done that, post a message to mentioning that ticket and briefly summarizing the rationale, ideally also including the patch at the end to ease review. Once that is pushed to the groff git, i will make sure mandoc follows. Nab wrote on Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 01:54:47PM +0200: > But the end-goal is to be correct, which I believe the current string > is not, and I'm inclined to believe that it was a throwaway decision I believe Cynthia Livingston did not usually make "throwaway decisions". > nobody remembers Cynthia added it in this commit: s 00128/00026/00064 d D 5.3 91/04/20 02:36:13 cael 5 3 c register usage changes, reorg .St macro .\" Ns At macro - AT&T UNIX .de At .nr cF \\n(.f .nr cZ \\n(.s .ds aa \&\f\\n(cF\s\\n(cZ .if \\n(.$==2 \{\ . if "\\$1"32v" \&Version 32V \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa\\$2 . if "\\$1"v6" \&Version 6 \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa\\$2 . if "\\$1"v7" \&Version 7 \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa\\$2 . if "\\$1"V" \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa\\$2 . if "\\$1"V.1" \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V.1 \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa\\$2 .\} .if \\n(.$==1 \{\ . if "\\$1"32v" \&Version 32V \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa . if "\\$1"v6" \&Version 6 \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa . if "\\$1"v7" \&Version 7 \\*(tNAT&T UNIX\\*(aa . if "\\$1"V" \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa . if "\\$1"V.1" \&\\*(tNAT&T\\*(aa System V.1 \\*(tNUNIX\\*(aa .\} .. Did you ask her whether she remembers why she chose these particular words? She is alive for all i know, and was well last time i exchanged mail with her. Then again, maybe this is not really important enough to bother her. If the wording can be improved, it can be changed. Yours, Ingo -- To unsubscribe send an email to tech+unsubscribe@mandoc.bsd.lv