From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/2364 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rob Landley Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Summary of 1.0 marketing plan/scheme/nefarious plot from IRC. Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:50:03 -0600 Message-ID: <1354222203.2190.17@driftwood> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; DelSp=Yes; Format=Flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1354222220 15775 80.91.229.3 (29 Nov 2012 20:50:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:50:20 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-2365-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Thu Nov 29 21:50:33 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by plane.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TeB42-0005wO-VR for gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2012 21:50:31 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 22476 invoked by uid 550); 29 Nov 2012 20:50:17 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 22463 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2012 20:50:16 -0000 X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:subject:to:x-mailer:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=uDxvJOcXZxtPNrPT4XFHsI7m5BuaFYDbnbID+Xa4LFY=; b=e7unPu6+NzzefkvNdZW5BjGvWQrcwc62HYgq6/5LP7ubVXgHdX4yvjzmLynLOtL28F dAXrmKR5sk7X/UFpdI7423RWrMLwUHKKHhZp1LsYKqKtht+RvKs+qWX1fDJeL3gW/ndj YV6Rm+rLIJPCpBXctE2cO7Q30M1W0Xh3iDY9kzx/JNmVmY5UKtiaI5iZhedO2Kj7sTno Sh4l7/KmSmjFn0oC4zSYYlg3QDOGtA/d7Ryhj+5HDqWbllqt+kuwxxxAAFLmRlawdXDj Gne+KWQMQCmFeVPp/14Qgk6nJTdk1WORsIvq1OeX/J71tolJIFAK/aekx18rkdrJtCs9 J9TA== X-Mailer: Balsa 2.4.11 Content-Disposition: inline X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkmVUAVl58F5VinHxZTKrM0MjyZpKzeAGNRBwZFTFwNGOtpJ2L8depUHx8HIwr7ef7oL76m Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:2364 Archived-At: Notes from the discussion we had on IRC, plus some further random =20 thoughts on telling the world about musl: - wait until 1.0 so it's most likely to works for them. - People who take a look and wander off again are less likely to =20 take another look, so try to make a spash when you're _ready_, not before. - counter this with "rule of 7", people filter out noise and won't =20 remember they've even heard of you until they've seen it in ~7 different places. So =20 once you _ARE_ ready, get the word out everywhere. (Politely.) - prepare the website to covert casual browsers into long-term users. - press release extoling virtues - simple - realtime: less code is more deterministic - security: less code is easier to audit - students/teachers: learn how a posix system works - link to the online git browser for the "show me the code" guys. - already tested against 8 gazillion packages - standards compliant - BSD license: static linking ok, android deployment ok - works side by side with existing libraries, or static linked - easy deployment on android without bionic limitations - technical advantages - support static and dynamic linking and do _both_ well - thread implementation is _not_crazy_, and no legacy baggage. - obvious "start here" from main page. - Why it's cool (collate) - how to use it (collate) - HOWTO walkthrough - binaries they can try. - cross compiler, build hello world - livecd of full-ish x86 distro. - with working x11 and simple gui (xfce? fvwm?) - chroot for each target with native development tools - system images for qemu maybe? - launch x11 vnc server and display in tightvnc window? - jslinux live image on website - distro conversions - leverage existing repositories, don't fall into the buildroot trap - approach gentoo guys about a musl build - #gentoo-embedded on freenode - maybe funtoo would be easier (Daniel Robbins' new project, =20 #funtoo on freenode) - approach debian guys about musl debootstrap - arch linux, slackware, puppy, crunchbang, tinycore... - http://distrowatch.com/popularity - approach cyanogenmod guys about doing a musl-based cyanogenmod. - way into man's heart is through the stomach and up under the =20 ribcage, one way into android is cyanogenmod. - push "musl support" patches to other projects upstream all at once - sabotage collected a bunch? - people who develop on 3 other project seeing musl on all 3 lists makes dev community look big and active. - Write linux from scratch "musl hint", contribute it to LFS, then link to it on LFS website from musl website. - is userbase of glibc, uClibc, klibc, or dietlibc better served by =20 musl? - contribute musl option to buildroot? - contribute musl option to crosstool-ng? - Ask mentor graphics (formly code sourcery) to do a musl toolchain? - LOTS of proprietary embedded devs use this one, it's =20 "professional". - windriver.com is now a wholly owned subsidiary of intel - klibc guys are initramfs@vger or embedded@vger (see lists) - ask clibc author Peter Anvin if musl serves his needs? - mailing lists you can post a "here's how musl can help _you_" on: It's not spam if you tailor a post to each list, especially if =20 there's patches attached in the case of dash or util-linux... - each architecture list for arches you support (linux-arm, =20 linux-ppc, etc). "musl is pleased to announce support for the $BLAH architecture, =20 here are a cross compiler, chroot with native compiler, and a system image =20 to play with." - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/mailinglists/lists.php - http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/Net_Resources#Mailing_lists - https://lists.ozlabs.org/listinfo/linuxppc-dev - http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-x86_64 - http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#dash - http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#initramfs - http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-embedded - http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#util-linux - and maybe one "OS support" message to linux-kernel. - websites that might review musl if we ask nicely: - linux - lwn.net (submit via lwn@lwn.net) - h-online (ping @codepope on twitter) - Linux Journal - Linux Today (they'll just link elsewhere) - android - not personally familiar, google for "android news" finds several. - works well with android kernel, installs side-by-side with =20 bionic, static links well, doesn't introduce any new licensing issues, provides full posix environment, active and responsive dev =20 community. - paper magazines - long shot, but if you send a press release to pc magazine and =20 computerworld and such explaining how musl might help android bridge the gap =20 between phones and the desktop they might write a "will android bridge the gap =20 between phones and the desktop" article mentioning musl. :) - tech bloggers - cringely.com - Consumer Electronic Linux Forum - Tim Bird and elinux.org - do a musl distro that runs well on raspberry pi, tell =20 http://www.raspberrypi.org/ - ask people on mailing list and irc to blog/tweet about the 1.0 =20 release when it happens. - write a syllabus for theoretical "teaching musl" one semester =20 comp-sci course.=