From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/3545 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jens Gustedt Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: Use of size_t and ssize_t in mseek Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 09:11:29 +0200 Message-ID: <1372921889.16412.167.camel@eris.loria.fr> References: <20130629041316.GG29800@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <51CEE341.9000409@nicta.com.au> <20130629141736.GH29800@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <1372517802.8324.13.camel@eris.loria.fr> <20130629154859.GI29800@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <1372521678.8324.18.camel@eris.loria.fr> <20130629161338.GK29800@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <1372523967.8324.19.camel@eris.loria.fr> <20130704012800.GK29800@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <1372918318.16412.164.camel@eris.loria.fr> <20130704063740.GL29800@brightrain.aerifal.cx> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; 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C3d0WolfKhTp6clRyhcg04xtGCHt1Dh/rExRamYWGyxXa7xn1yYuvkAwP7fClg0Zhx+qr/rM7d+Yesc73nHD5OW7Zh478tRzPxACH/iRa245duzkAdsJfMuy8aXm/FUFlpeWWOm2WZidI9WapaUlFIaTlQ4jfR6/vO9D2NE32LTeYnZOUmnA6PAohx9+qnTy1NnrP/ Cj15cu23XZI4/826Px/xqB37z547sPH374oOvnKTsOb+1zuCoImZARM8ZiLlKkXcWOcoFRJ+Do/CwFO4e2DEe+9Ti+ZXA8ny/cU+X4bMKRZxZIVEiqXI6/+NKuUzPHb7z40ovnX3zx+Ctuq38HyuqWG7Tu+A0AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Mailer: Evolution 3.2.3-0ubuntu6 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:3545 Archived-At: --=-cEtJoF8oqh68gH7URdK9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Donnerstag, den 04.07.2013, 02:37 -0400 schrieb Rich Felker: > > unless one would finally implement them separately, of course >=20 > Yes but that's a huge maintenance burden (duplicate functionality) and > while it's less bloat for individual static apps that don't use Annex > K, it's much more bloat for libc.a and libc.so. sure, I mentioned this merely for completeness, I don't think that this is a viable option > No, I mean just the sheer volume of interfaces to add. The number of interfaces wouldn't scare me too much, and it would be relatively easy to start supporting that incrementally. > qsort_s can store the comparison function and context in TLS, and then > pass to qsort a comparison function that grabs these from TLS and > calls the original comparison function with the context pointer. This > is valid assuming qsort does not run the comparisons in new threads. sure, but for an execution of qsort_s this would have a lot of indirections and a call to TLS for every comparison. For performance sensible functions like this, this doesn't sound very attractive. (In P99 I do that with inlining and gcc shows to be able to expand all comparisons in place and to optimize that smoothly.) > TLS is not guaranteed to exist when these functions are called; > programs not using any multi-threaded functionality are supposed to > "basically work" on Linux 2.4. I don't mind having the Annex K > functions depend on TLS, since only new programs will use them anyway, > but I don't want to break existing programs. My guess would be that you can alias the TLS variable that would control that behavior to a simple global variable in the case of absence of threads. > What I was saying is that, in library code, you can't rely on this. > The application may have installed a handler that causes the functions > to just return an error, or the default implementation-defined handler > might do so. sure, but I don't see any problem in this. continuing execution is one of the permitted path that a constraint handler may take. these are user interfaces, not meant to be used internally by the C library, I think. > > > My feeling is that we should hold off on a decision about them to > > > see if any applications actually start using them. > >=20 > > I think we have a hen and egg problem, here. Nobody will use them if > > nobody provides an implementation. >=20 > You presume we would want people to use them. :) I don't. I think > they're very poorly designed interfaces that were crammed into the > standards process by their sponsor's clout rather than any technical > merit of existing practice. AFAIK they had some existing practice in the MS world I think there are some of these interfaces that are not too bad, from a user perspective these interfaces are relatively simple to use. Especially qsort_s is nice and I also see advantages in being able to inhibit certain dangerous printf or scanf formats. > _FORTIFY_SOURCE solves pretty much the same problems these functions > were intended to solve, but does a much better job since it doesn't > rely on the application developer to provide truthful information > about object sizes, and instead gets the compiler to do it. In C, applications *have* to have a consistent view of the size of their buffers. So I don't see much of a burden, here. I started to use them (through my P99 implementation) and I didn't find anything remarkably heavy. Jens --=20 :: INRIA Nancy Grand Est :: http://www.loria.fr/~gustedt/ :: :: AlGorille ::::::::::::::: office Nancy : +33 383593090 :: :: ICube :::::::::::::: office Strasbourg : +33 368854536 :: :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::: gsm France : +33 651400183 :: :: :::::::::::::::::::: gsm international : +49 15737185122 :: --=-cEtJoF8oqh68gH7URdK9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAlHVICEACgkQD9PoadrVN+JsAwCfSwu7segEtebaFAHHBUNhRZAl IcwAoIxW7gKKQhdCoJSb8R14Lj509PSk =rnlP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-cEtJoF8oqh68gH7URdK9--