From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/4506 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jens Gustedt Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: Discussion of partly-invasive changes needed for x32 port Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 09:29:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1390292941.3008.108.camel@eris.loria.fr> References: <20140120074131.GA3529@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <52DCE1B8.3020100@gentoo.org> <1390209922.6398.365.camel@eris.loria.fr> <52DCF67A.3020706@barfooze.de> <1390215339.6398.371.camel@eris.loria.fr> <20140120235700.GH24286@brightrain.aerifal.cx> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-JcybYRZIipmalHk0P/aQ" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390292948 10528 80.91.229.3 (21 Jan 2014 08:29:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:29:08 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-4510-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Tue Jan 21 09:29:16 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by plane.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W5Whv-0004m2-RS for gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 09:29:16 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 24277 invoked by uid 550); 21 Jan 2014 08:29:14 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 24269 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2014 08:29:13 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.95,695,1384297200"; d="scan'";a="54129840" In-Reply-To: <20140120235700.GH24286@brightrain.aerifal.cx> Face: 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Cj15cu23XZI4/826Px/xqB37z547sPH374oOvnKTsOb+1zuCoImZARM8ZiLlKkXcWOcoFRJ+Do/CwFO4e2DEe+9Ti+ZXA8ny/cU+X4bMKRZxZIVEiqXI6/+NKuUzPHb7z40ovnX3zx+Ctuq38HyuqWG7Tu+A0AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Mailer: Evolution 3.2.3-0ubuntu6 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:4506 Archived-At: --=-JcybYRZIipmalHk0P/aQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Am Montag, den 20.01.2014, 18:57 -0500 schrieb Rich Felker: > Where? In every file that passes timespecs to syscalls? The whole > point is to follow my basic principle that workarounds for buggy > platforms (which the kernel's x32 support is) belong in places where > nobody has to see them unless they're working with the buggy platform > in question. This is a principle I first proposed and promoted while > working on MPlayer, and later applied as a critique of frameworks like > NSPR, APR, etc. The classic example of this principle goes like this: > For a cross-platform application or library, instead of having #ifdef > WIN32 all over the place and windows-specific code interleaved all > over the general, non-platform-specific code, one should provide > replacement headers or library code that fix the behavior of the > windows headers or runtime to conform to the standards they're > ignoring, and then write the code shared between platforms to portable > C/POSIX. BTW in some ways gnulib also follows this principle, except > that it assumes by default the target system is broken and needs fixes > which are inherently non-portabke. If you instead assume by default > that the target is non-broken, and only apply fixes to a known finite > set of broken platforms, you have much less chance of breaking things > and also keep the ugly hacks out of the way of developers not > specifically dealing with porting to the broken system(s). >=20 > That's the motivation here. sure, system dependent #ifdef are a plague, you are absolutely right but feature dependent ones are not as bad, I think, there is a big difference in maintainability between #if WIN32 > 47 typedef unsigned long total_t; #endif and #if ULONG_MAX =3D=3D ULLONG_MAX typedef unsigned long total_t; #else typedef unsigned long long total_t; #endif _Generic macros are not so much different from that. At the point of declaration you'd have to understand and maintain the different branches that such a macro could take. They have the advantage of being type oriented, instead of being value oriented. But the disadvantage of spreading the decisions to everywhere in the code, potentially leading to longer compilation times. (Some of the macros I have bring gcc to its knees :) > Right now the only magic type-generic macros in musl are in tgmath.h > and internal/syscall.h. I would have thought that there already are more, but you certainly know the code much better than I do. > So I think we're okay without any more general > _Generic framework for now. Once you are starting to implement C11 library features, you are going to need more, I think. Implementing C11 atomics without it would be a real challenge. Jens --=20 :: INRIA Nancy Grand Est :: http://www.loria.fr/~gustedt/ :: :: AlGorille ::::::::::::::: office Nancy : +33 383593090 :: :: ICube :::::::::::::: office Strasbourg : +33 368854536 :: :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::: gsm France : +33 651400183 :: :: :::::::::::::::::::: gsm international : +49 15737185122 :: --=-JcybYRZIipmalHk0P/aQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAlLeL80ACgkQD9PoadrVN+KExwCfRz3nwIlOuer1I8Gnx0cJM6An MsAAn2Y/p8GzXWPiWBDbPcR2a8h8XzTp =CVEm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-JcybYRZIipmalHk0P/aQ--