From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/6126 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jens Gustedt Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/9] interface additions for the C thread implementation Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 18:51:12 +0200 Message-ID: <1410108672.4856.162.camel@eris.loria.fr> References: <20140907002123.GX23797@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <1410081238.4856.137.camel@eris.loria.fr> <1410088603.4856.146.camel@eris.loria.fr> <20140907113220.GB23797@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <1410101101.4856.158.camel@eris.loria.fr> <20140907151610.GD23797@brightrain.aerifal.cx> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Ax1Yd3qU65hzz0tx19b/" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1410108682 22051 80.91.229.3 (7 Sep 2014 16:51:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 16:51:22 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-6139-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Sun Sep 07 18:51:17 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by plane.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XQfgI-0007BF-8M for gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2014 18:51:14 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 31782 invoked by uid 550); 7 Sep 2014 16:51:13 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 31774 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2014 16:51:13 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,483,1406584800"; d="scan'";a="93400008" In-Reply-To: <20140907151610.GD23797@brightrain.aerifal.cx> Face: 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Cj15cu23XZI4/826Px/xqB37z547sPH374oOvnKTsOb+1zuCoImZARM8ZiLlKkXcWOcoFRJ+Do/CwFO4e2DEe+9Ti+ZXA8ny/cU+X4bMKRZxZIVEiqXI6/+NKuUzPHb7z40ovnX3zx+Ctuq38HyuqWG7Tu+A0AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Mailer: Evolution 3.4.4-3 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:6126 Archived-At: --=-Ax1Yd3qU65hzz0tx19b/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Sonntag, den 07.09.2014, 11:16 -0400 schrieb Rich Felker: > On Sun, Sep 07, 2014 at 04:45:01PM +0200, Jens Gustedt wrote: > > Am Sonntag, den 07.09.2014, 07:32 -0400 schrieb Rich Felker: > > > I'm not clear on whether the assignment is well-defined in pthreads, > > > but actually attempting to use the mutex (by passing it to any of the > > > pthread_mutex_* functions) would be UB. The same should be true for > > > C11 threads; if not, it's a defect. > >=20 > > It is. >=20 > It is a defect? Or..? sorry, I meant it is a defect. Yet another proof of the severe lack of specification and semantic that this whole C thread thing has in the standard. > > sure, we all (should) know that, but the average user wouldn't > >=20 > > > I don't think the committee intended to forbid any of the above types > > > of implementation; on the contrary it seems they went out of their wa= y > > > to support crazy types of implementations, e.g. by omitting > > > initializers. > >=20 > > No, unfortunately for the later, the lack of a definition for default > > initialization and initializers seems to be intentional. There are > > people on the committee who defend the interdiction of statically > > initialized mutexes, seemingly because some oldish windows thread > > implementation didn't have it. >=20 > That's what I mean. By refusing to support static initialization of > mutexes, they seem to be supporting the possibility of implementations > for which static initialization is impractical, much like some of the > crazy ideas I mentioned above. Even with those crazy ideas it is easily possible to have the corresponding function do such a lacking initialization based on a default 0 initialized field, in the same way pthread_once_t works. This is a bit of an overhead at each call, but I wouldn't mind at all penalizing any implementation that deviates from the "all-default-initialization-is-0" rule. That's already something the standard has for years for pointers and floating point. A platform may have different representations for null pointers or for 0.0. But it is the problem of the platform provider to do everything that 0 initialization does the right thing, and not to leave such crazy thing to the user of the type. Jens --=20 :: INRIA Nancy Grand Est ::: AlGorille ::: ICube/ICPS ::: :: ::::::::::::::: office Strasbourg : +33 368854536 :: :: :::::::::::::::::::::: gsm France : +33 651400183 :: :: ::::::::::::::: gsm international : +49 15737185122 :: :: http://icube-icps.unistra.fr/index.php/Jens_Gustedt :: --=-Ax1Yd3qU65hzz0tx19b/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAlQMjQAACgkQD9PoadrVN+ITHQCfZpxGh7unpPw0a8S4i+qzLzx2 hIUAoIvJjYGYGg14EwWX6hxQlUaYM071 =YwxD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Ax1Yd3qU65hzz0tx19b/--