From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13326 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2020 06:53:54 -0000 Received: from mother.openwall.net (195.42.179.200) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Sep 2020 06:53:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 31763 invoked by uid 550); 21 Sep 2020 06:53:51 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 31745 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2020 06:53:50 -0000 To: musl@lists.openwall.com References: <4768019.hHWyC0TzgU@omega> <20200920135629.GI2947641@port70.net> <20200920171446.GB3265@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <2533200.g9kxISXj3W@omega> From: "A. Wilcox" Autocrypt: addr=awilfox@adelielinux.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE+DjPIBEADTQ1H/e/avDUhgt8+T3TJpjGYoY9Y47EMfHqWMm9LjR9aiZSG6GWRbpjWS 4V0DqzIhNQw7HLkPws9CVqQkmpIeltQyGDV2qcR5AXxJ4lCRWHxwRzWE0cCzhLUR9BBWOO0U NINQY+2IqmzRAqXZ9zL+mGTles/qeheXmaWLKf/T0kqJFihoM+ItQvUWOkWUdVv0prhzXr9Q QUdt0NTIW8n4sPwtuSvQgqwSzCJQArh1myugVSGiIIN38pCU8g41Vh35mHHhbHjbn0o1mhrX B/gbsndGo7QQBKz4CPaSel+Fl92dCvVWTp1XYyjqeZx2xlx1zfDrXOTuzY1WmNHi7BgHYuem tG7Zyp7u9MR6FvLKgQhmvCQZXaa+9oNtwKckxoP/I5R8ede9YRb6pLyG5JC0pTTk7kpUZCX2 tm8pLKy899zomm8BBm71aEJHE44ABEl/PbM7tA7XhSPiWsdBmVCxH4bqpUgGMx0ztqhNsUul SDDhiAWgtYFHATynhmeKBDKthkO7lj4CzwI54dn1uiwDtvUFVyVsPMjJcCxFnONbOPcvm1R9 sDg5sn57dv0f+EtaU3ppZdotutjM9X7OEC93d1flO3k1LO20qn2ZcI24f3tEOLAjn5xZ1GdV 3BYBwrtuaaiO8tMdp0uAtILzkkrcr0vOi2/SngxtXFw+44X+WQARAQABtDNBLiBXaWxjb3gg KEFkw6lsaWUgTGludXgpIDxhd2lsZm94QGFkZWxpZWxpbnV4Lm9yZz6JAjoEEwEIACQCGwMF CwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlhEpGYCGQEACgkQyynLUZIrnRQu5RAAqxHJdNIQ ucYYUaYX4EHJte4OAZbxXeGgMi4fe4m2qkMrd8U6VDfRbjsqETK7fOJdrIjvp+xrMTMvj36C LZ5YuBVmvTd4+Qn54y+8doMUtZppjW9Njwols3zCeaZR/4Iid2GjS7+avgVEhMuxlo5apygb n84VhdLRPAs2BtyqUWUhlLs2nXg6kzI/yT8frGGCN36Xewe35jrhl7h4d54t7h+wYcYw52Yt GHs/R+yPlCGPrlzh8IGwjDWDaUrQAqWdU3B2UG4g/yn/JYZrkvfbm7AhpBP5trY2jbm7sfTM NoClDDwgf0K8Kfj0LeBUzOLqGgQNBdaJ2x7f1xq5tJjAPmVL6oMElqyDz9ycUXvelLMnxgXI sjndF+K1aKjg6Ok68BfTo+tnUqmEjqAhjLBCSphQJavww8pU9KSPmxOr0GfjoiYELeoCdTe2 U44bhFwCcf5tG1qdu8l4pes1YPRVAVyr4J/BlS2e3FyU3MsYlma9toYghJZ0k9dVOqx5YXj9 B2keDpX1D7uEJUHpoRSPylLYKJCcNuzrsaK0gvczkgUvhaiij8qnlLEmDsv7KMdsv+qxknNC vdCBgoiYn01ZJZJrlllOEXpVAXfQDKcqGnIJ4GX87TIu3hR94tw4LOCayfRpN2Y4zlACPLaZ KiSon4ySDo+ooYQ8WgwH1y1ESsa5Ag0ET4OM8gEQAOI/n9h9v2TBOiLUt/nL+HOdxqvkfrKp mDHXx6ctJSm0VBHhHCxKN6Tk2B0BsUXcgR+BD76Tw4kTQvuj3E87m13xHRtASdCmnkvGhU4c JJ9ZbJbJhPLNr9qPUxwCQxFyMrFri/9GnE0Kbv5FfxsLQy9Slubnyg3CfI/wIP5pOoVFA2qI UmsQS155DmhbV2m0FDf0san01ZRMFYVcUUktcmFo0Xmr6PAxZ0FTaxSF8+921lKrvShcsnMv Osrf5toJGEdQw/IMO5rKH1m+q3qWQAOw4uF4WQJrGvhEsVK8G4mC6EBDTbxFVDtyBTMAGUVS t+Yb5i0iIYiMAP2MEJ+twg58PV+5RglheTGP9iPW0xReI1sOD9jfIrQbwqWpOchDGBUpQx4q DFYzzcbjvAP1k2o0mwMby5DJlVwktUiXXtOWZXKZXfTnCA65x1bC6gbtMrXN1CWkyjKT9xj9 Z5WlpZaeqe2SZkLG3/N7r4bSbw/Z6NsYeJ8CpSe6SfoWSsjebD6kbXlF5dsQf8aMUjaZAHp0 UpinfgWNh+58128yddsRMsidjU/MmwhzcRFsvn3rkgtnK4IwpLEfssChNPa26qwfcsvQ+AQU CCRd/GIZ8AkOVySQ30J8Assa/T3nc6VNKRVgsAiSClkeqVevAZmUMUbvH8f3cTe1VFn6kR3q pvfTABEBAAGJAh8EGAECAAkFAk+DjPICGwwACgkQyynLUZIrnRQifQ//f++reIP4el9Un1w4 11boSy1iBALnv58YSQQHPIZ4dq5hr8P1Hp3GDz+o6JFKeIHq5RYw2ornumS9waDbz7dRD1nc N5sMoVfR2g2P7honq59r3velxX36PmifHMmxb8MTqbCSJJRisqjWTMg7CZxH0NQ28qMtpiAw kvoEb+l2Uc/gKnvcpPfVJ/X0b3go0xAe9GA7Os9thjtl1v+I7c2+xjPUtvv+pDGRb9To2+Sw zOGwogbTrVw7KgAFhktx6i8tenXZRf36O0GTACRY//qHNoNNy5H4LYmfyHj6VU2ehwNJTlkK H/8oYV7fkOdcs6DZAnxeiOXUKpHC6ck0D0sWQ42GTeEraospQevGTrp1FZdYnfXznUFXuC6W jHR9piQehutMJ1vCP+DIRLGOMzV1TFWflpo71lb4AFLU3UOS/N7Cd8F+w1nG3WPn7UjFCMrc Xf268AEe0xwakXgNtwo2MTbtQSAO5AKYyGm/hnoLZg4YQ2eBPU95jUV+GMoEM/8Q0BJgsyF0 66NfhBXtuo50AipcARmnoqi6NDOKpC6mqiEYGsVuyQ9cRtkk9Jl98tXmnjxQlSL2nb4ErwJJ SyJq3hwiKMUJcw88IRNtYBe+dXaW4kDBTRha1k+brWZbu4tUlRWLVcSGjtP1pVukXA/SQ6a1 N7qhRF0UHQZkMW1rGbU= Organization: =?UTF-8?Q?Ad=c3=a9lie_Linux?= Message-ID: <156c512b-20db-f688-d596-021fe97ae2e8@adelielinux.org> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2020 01:53:31 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux ppc64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2533200.g9kxISXj3W@omega> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8MuKNPnGSvTyUo09niDalOz10yhXtuybQ" Subject: Re: [musl] Re: OS detection wrong on Alpine Linux 3.10 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --8MuKNPnGSvTyUo09niDalOz10yhXtuybQ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="f0s1jaxeUzML7ZsV480agmYoVpiTlkMOm" --f0s1jaxeUzML7ZsV480agmYoVpiTlkMOm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/09/2020 14:21, Bruno Haible wrote: > Rich, >=20 > POSIX =E2=80=94 like many other standard =E2=80=94 allows different imp= lementations to > behave differently. For example, iconv_open() and setlocale() behave > differently in different POSIX-compliant libc implementations. This is > OK. There is nothing wrong with it on either side. >=20 > Unit tests [1] need to take into account the actual behaviour of the > software. It is normal that a unit test's core function produces a > different result with musl than with glibc. The "expected outcome" > part of the unit test, in this case, needs to be different. This is > an actual, practical need to know whether the config triple ends in > linux-gnu vs. linux-musl. And then the tests break when glibc changes behaviour from one POSIX conformant way to the other. Or when musl changes behaviour. etc. As a distro packager: this sucks. Don't do it. Seriously. Do not do it. If a downstream needs to care about a behaviour of setlocale, they can write an autoconf macro testing the behaviour, and then use that. Then when glibc and/or musl and/or FreeBSD and/or $platform_of_the_week changes its behaviour, the test suite still passes without me having to dive into horrible m4 code and making me extremely angry for a week. I have seen this happen way too often, and it is always in GNU packages, because you lot seem to think that libraries exist in a microcosm of spacetime where their behaviours are static forever. System libraries evolve. They evolve slower than others, but still a non-zero rate. Note that there are plenty of GNU packages that actually use autotools correctly, and they are a breath of fresh air, and they do not make me afraid of building them. Learn from them. Be more like them. >> There is one kinda legitimate purpose for detecting specifically musl:= >=20 > It is not your role to tell us which code we write is "legitimate" and > which code is not. I am a grown-up programmer. Apparently not, or you would realise what you are doing is wrong, and hurts your projects by making them infinitely harder to build than they really need to be. And that hurts you, and us (distros), and the people who *use* your software. Please, test behaviours, not library types. Best, --arw >=20 > Bruno >=20 > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_testing >=20 --=20 A. Wilcox (awilfox) Project Lead, Ad=C3=A9lie Linux https://www.adelielinux.org --f0s1jaxeUzML7ZsV480agmYoVpiTlkMOm-- --8MuKNPnGSvTyUo09niDalOz10yhXtuybQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEjNyWOYPU1SaTSMHHyynLUZIrnRQFAl9oTesACgkQyynLUZIr nRTPkg//SDwGnvtueHv0RgboFWiFZybapAKTFIDGyNak9GEx6FB6rAHmg4REooD0 nAUAbBqHTo6peA7H7g7qzN3a7USLPYOtZuR/TtnQ3bbTHXlqCz6/N/+M/WlEVpXN j+Oxv9VzQK2to9IRw0VyAsSZpTzu+babw8hcTzwdQHQstdW6tc7eK6h/6VTE6xZ9 ni0QO7rnXElLd6hY23azXnhNA/b/yT9/4cmpD77YN2RLJn3ohCAuhuks4vhOEvaO ht0TFuA6cRacpfBc+IFPgrm6iym/DDzE9F4qNPwVfBp246036Jitwkdebj8lTmss 4+60hZaToG6fmQcViQUnabs2c4L6Fxf6BQDNBMcKpGrAX0/5CEWbciFMMTi/2rm4 vEgMgxAzr74XN/i6s7+HSVr6WUwCCNEzzP3d+HtrgdoWREgmvk3NyAK6t4ZzW5nh FZgjuzvn5L49afmx6BHG+JN/QlShArD/Rfwph/1XEZIx6XQKapshwMApKhHiYxwU yNQC1S1srv6u/MmygUYl18ECNcJan8gknjYS64ocC3SaTrJtxTXpguNYBZBj1qxY 4SBDhmFHNX2bejHpY2PNC1FMkxjTclwAZUIIR3R7oNDAdy58/fd0kqV6ts7rd5Et joG9D0jj5eZF82BxYHmaScSx1GBa4/Ps7f3bBlXClvovNZhwtxM= =k2xV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8MuKNPnGSvTyUo09niDalOz10yhXtuybQ--