From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/2559 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jens Staal Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: NULL Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:39:20 +0100 Message-ID: <1610513.RlLnocsNNl@krypton> References: <1357972364.32505.4@driftwood> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1357990808 22120 80.91.229.3 (12 Jan 2013 11:40:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:40:08 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-2560-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Sat Jan 12 12:40:26 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by plane.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TtzRp-0006sT-Gf for gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:40:25 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 26287 invoked by uid 550); 12 Jan 2013 11:40:07 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 26278 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2013 11:40:07 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-type; bh=AlcjLdTnOygUhdDhHbcDqUq6xAUdoAQMhTytUl9eJYk=; b=zygAEm8Ypi4ABgO/yymdWAlSy2YibGNPxabWJv+MNS/gwmsVUnqxMy0YJic4tcTY2n +JLMWBhor/NWSME5yB+PerYSCQbeeDXNzdD5DNGo42p91hdsClX9qw4SbrVHMHieWf2M BgQXNAoaosQS2nQk/D1ZBh418U91xGmk4LeAmpgK1BE4LCh8eVLuHZGtVWoIBCxx86oK xHTW9n+VZ69CnDLieUkiowStNxHaji+AGed4AfOTelwu6oQX2oKZuV7Wym29Pd0dZT/z myDQ8S1/wczXlvPbS0OK4iF6NdorgtpZqDY3w/fS6uaF+inXcz6qsAqcL7N7nj5TftVd eOKw== X-Received: by 10.14.215.6 with SMTP id d6mr210110413eep.40.1357990796220; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 03:39:56 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: KMail/4.9.5 (Linux/3.7.1-2-ARCH; KDE/4.9.5; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <1357972364.32505.4@driftwood> Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:2559 Archived-At: l=F6rdagen den 12 januari 2013 00.32.44 skrev Rob Landley: > I wouldn't be too impressed by this. >=20 > There are somewhere between 200 and 900 packages that cross compile =20= > "easily", for a decreasingly obvious definition of "easily" depending= =20 > on how many rocket engines you want to strap to the turtle. Projects = =20 > like OpenEmbedded and Beyond Linux From Scratch recapitulate phylogen= y =20 > with these packages, and then hit the point where your volunteers' ti= me =20 > is entirely consumed dealing with package upgrades to hold the existi= ng =20 > turf against bit-rot. (Personally, I refer to this as "the buildroot = =20 > event horizon".) >=20 > Actual distributions eventually separate "the OS" from "the =20 > repository", where they have a core team who does work on the operati= ng =20 > system and a separate (much, much larger) set of package maintainers = =20 > who keep their packages of interest working but don't generally work = on =20 > the base OS other than complaining when something breaks. >=20 > You only get to the "real distro" stage when the base OS stops being = =20 > interesting. While the base OS remains a moving target, package =20 > maintainers can't do their jobs without also being OS maintainers, =20= > which is a much bigger time commitment and has Brooks' Law problems =20= > with coordination overhead scaling your core team. pkgsrc is already doing quite well with musl libc and Gregor's "per pac= kage=20 namespace" ideas in Snowflake seeem very interesting*, also utilized in= =20 Sabotage. Most likely, source-based or combined source/binary based=20 distributions like pkgsrc or gentoo are probably the fastest and "easie= st" to=20 get going. Hooking up to a binary distribution distro like the debian-b= ased or=20 rpm-based ones still means that one needs sepparate repositories for th= e new=20 libc (so the number of repositories will then be supported archs * supp= orted=20 libcs) - probably a more difficult proposition. * Even cooler would ofcourse be to be able to use union mounts and priv= ate=20 namespaces instead of symlinks to a default PATH like /bin, but that is= not=20 really relevant for this particular discussion.