From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/1141 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rich Felker Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: Wiki for musl? Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:46:00 -0400 Message-ID: <20120614034600.GM163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> References: <20120613183956.GL17860@port70.net> <20120613185127.GA29433@intma.in> <408C4093A95A4EF69AB0357291066A7F@lightcubesolutions.com> <20120613195450.GJ163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <29654F593379412DB2311B0EFF7CADAE@lightcubesolutions.com> <20120613200006.GK163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20120613230947.GA66841@intma.in> <20120614002140.GL163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20120614031006.GB8304@intma.in> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1339645828 18520 80.91.229.3 (14 Jun 2012 03:50:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 03:50:28 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-1142-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Thu Jun 14 05:50:27 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by plane.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sf14j-0000OY-2q for gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:50:25 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 18179 invoked by uid 550); 14 Jun 2012 03:50:25 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 18168 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2012 03:50:24 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120614031006.GB8304@intma.in> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:1141 Archived-At: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:10:06PM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:21:40PM -0400, Rich Felker wrote: > > I assume you're talking about the live preview. What about submitting > > changes without reloading the page? To me that makes a big difference > > in the usability impression - avoiding the discontinuity of the screen > > disappearing for a second, the scrollbar getting reset, etc. > > Since this was never meant to be how http works, this is a non-trivial > requirement. In fact, it's a general case that the program must be > written from the ground up to support such behavior. The only wiki See below... > > It's not that I want things to "look ajaxy". I don't mind if they look > > like the first websites from the early 90s with no styling, default > > fonts, no custom buttons, etc., but I do like having a responsive > > interface without discontinuities. > > This is what I meant by "look ajaxy." http is a fetch/display protocol; > html is a markup language designed to be rendered once. dynamic > document alteration and xmlhttprequest are what ajax is all about. I understand how it works. > > Graceful fallback to non-AJAX when JS is disabled (or in browsers that > > don't support JS) is of course a requirement for an accessible site. > > That graceful degradation is a unicorn that has never been caught. The > de facto solution that web people have adopted is in the style of > google: AJAX wherever possible, with a failover site written in regular > HTML. The two front ends share no components and will double your > development and maintenance costs up front. Recently Google has begun Just because this is the way broken sites are done doesn't mean it has to be that way. Suppose instead you do something like this. When the client sends the submission to the server, the server generates the updated contact then does a DOM-level diff of the old and new versions, then sends a representation of the diff across to the client-side js that incorporates it into the DOM there. No ugly duplication, eh? And the ajax code is nearly 100% generic and site-generic. Rich