From: idunham@lavabit.com
To: musl@lists.openwall.com
Subject: Re: Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries?
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:50:26 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130424005026.GA20089@Caracal> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130423134724.GY20323@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 09:47:24AM -0400, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 10:04:30PM -0700, Isaac Dunham wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 21:46:40 -0400
> > Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > "There's always room for dropbear". And polarssl, and so on.
> > >
> > > cyassl looked promising too. I would probably mention tomcrypt too
> > > even though it's not sufficient to do SSL; it has the most slim,
> > > clean, portable implementations of crypto algorithms I've seen.
> >
> > wpa_supplicant can use tomcrypt (external or internal) as fallback
> > if no other encryption method (ie, openssl/gnutls) is configured, so
> > I'd say it merits a mention.
>
> In that case I don't even see why they bother including the code to
> use openssl/gnutls...
There are one or two features that need to be disabled to use tomcrypt.
I wish I could remember what they were. But upstream has provided many
options that only duplicate functionality with additional bloat.
(sockets and plain C, vs. DBUS + glib)
> > I wonder if some notes should be put somewhere to point out that a
> > network mangler on top of wpa_supplicant is not needed (the learning
> > curve for configuring it is pretty steep, due to the need to find
> > and understand the docs, but wpa_supplicant + wpa_cli -a script +
> > wpa_cli in command mode can handle most situations, including dhcp).
> > I mention this because it seems to be "accepted wisdom" (but false)
> > that you need wpa_supplicant as a tool and a network manager to make
> > it useable. And most of the network managers I've encountered are
> > bloat of the highest order: NetworkManager, wicd, wifiradar... But
> > this might be better put somewhere else.
>
> Well the accepted wisdom is "almost true": for practical use of mobile
> wifi, you need not just wpa_supplicant but also some controlling
> process that's capable of:
>
> 1. Choosing which network to connect to.
Oh, like wpa_cli select_network ?
> 2. Managing keys.
wpa_cli [ passphrase | otp | password | new_password | pin | wps_pbc ]
(though figuring it out may be difficult, even with the help messages)
> 3. Logic for what to do when signal is lost.
wpa_supplicant reassociates on non-user-specified disconnects, and
wpa_cli -a <script>
allows configuration of the commands to run on CONNECTED and
DISCONNECTED events.
> 4. Automating nonsense click-through agreements on public wifi.
> ...
Nothing for this, as far as I know. (On the other hand, I tend to dislike
software that pretends that I agreed to something I never saw.
Weird, I know ;-). )
> The existing solutions all manage the above very poorly...
What's worse is how some of them handle changing networks.
wpa_supplicant comes with wpa_cli for a reason: you need to be able to
tell the existing process to change its configuration.
The WRONG way to do things is to create a new config file, start a new
instance of wpa_supplicant using that config file, and leave the old
wpa_supplicant running.
(wicd, I hope you've figured that out by now.)
Of course, setting up wpa_supplicant so that wpa_cli works is not easy.
And while wpa_gui (the Qt interface that corresponds to wpa_cli) is
available, it needs as much preconfiguration as wpa_cli, and the UI
could use some improvement before it's easy to understand (I can follow
it readily, but that's after using wpa_cli without anything else for a year or
two).
A tool capable of producing a functional wpa_supplicant.conf and
providing a gui corresponding to wpa_cli in functionality would handle
most scenarios.
Unfortunately, the existing tools tend not to do that; I should see how
ceni works sometime-it's the only one I know of and haven't tried yet.
--
Isaac Dunham
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-04-24 0:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-04-21 16:30 LM
2013-04-21 20:17 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-21 20:24 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-24 11:39 ` LM
2013-04-25 19:30 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-21 23:26 ` Isaac Dunham
2013-04-22 14:53 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-22 15:21 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-22 16:40 ` LM
2013-04-22 16:47 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-22 22:07 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 12:50 ` LM
2013-04-23 14:40 ` John Spencer
2013-04-23 14:58 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-22 19:31 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-22 23:24 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-22 23:31 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 0:54 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-23 1:46 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 5:04 ` Isaac Dunham
2013-04-23 13:47 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 21:25 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-23 21:50 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-24 2:37 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 4:43 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-24 13:37 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 0:50 ` idunham [this message]
2013-04-24 6:11 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-22 21:52 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-22 22:42 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-22 23:06 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 0:26 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-23 2:14 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-23 19:07 ` Strake
2013-04-23 19:24 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-23 21:33 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-24 12:12 ` Zvi Gilboa
2013-04-23 21:34 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-24 11:18 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-24 11:48 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-24 12:32 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-24 13:38 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 13:55 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-24 13:37 ` go support (was: Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries?) John Spencer
2013-04-24 13:39 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 16:33 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-24 15:47 ` Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries? Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-24 19:17 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-25 6:40 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-25 19:37 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-24 13:28 ` go support (was: Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries?) John Spencer
2013-04-24 13:42 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 14:06 ` Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries? Christian Neukirchen
2013-04-29 11:41 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-29 16:31 ` Go (was: [musl] Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries?) John Spencer
2013-04-29 16:44 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-23 0:31 ` Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries? Rob Landley
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