Release very far behind schedule

Release very far behind schedule

[Rich Felker]

Hi all,

First of all, some apologies: both that the 1.1.5 release is quite a
bit behind the roadmap schedule, and that the wiki is down (and thus
the roadmap isn't visible so nobody can see how far behind the release
is :-). Jeremy is aware that the wiki is down but doesn't have much
time to devote to it, so we should look for a new solution for hosting
and maintaining it in the future.

With regards to the release, I think everything important is done. I'd
like to run some tests and I'd like feedback if there are any new
regressions or pending _trivial_ things I'm forgetting (trivial in the
sense of small, obviously-correct patches that I might have
overlooked, not anything that's going to require review or
discussion). Hopefully I can get this out in the next day or two. It's
been "basically done" for quite a while now, which in a sense is a
good thing -- it means there's been a good window of opportunity for
catching regressions -- but it's never fun to have stagnation of
development like this.

Rich

Re: Release very far behind schedule

[Timo Teras]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 10:53:18 -0400
Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org> wrote:

> With regards to the release, I think everything important is done. I'd
> like to run some tests and I'd like feedback if there are any new
> regressions or pending _trivial_ things I'm forgetting (trivial in the
> sense of small, obviously-correct patches that I might have
> overlooked, not anything that's going to require review or
> discussion). Hopefully I can get this out in the next day or two. It's
> been "basically done" for quite a while now, which in a sense is a
> good thing -- it means there's been a good window of opportunity for
> catching regressions -- but it's never fun to have stagnation of
> development like this.

FWIW, we have musl git snapshot of 3e936ce8 in Alpine "edge", and it
seems to run smooth (now that the flockfile list corruption is fixed).
We do have several crazy developers (including me) who run that on their
main day-to-day box/laptop - so it has received at least moderate amount
of real life testing.

/Timo

Re: Release very far behind schedule

[Tim Tassonis]

On October 8, 2014 4:53:36 PM Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Jeremy is aware that the wiki is down but doesn't have much
> time to devote to it, so we should look for a new solution for hosting
> and maintaining it in the future.

I could do the hosting for free, as me and a friend run a little hosting 
business.
I'd have to know what software you'd need on the server, but this shouldn't 
be a problem, we have ubuntu servers with apache, php, mysql and postgres, 
normal stuff. If you need something else, we could install that, too.

Kind regards
Tim
>
> Rich

Re: Release very far behind schedule

[Natanael Copa]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:50:10 +0200
Tim Tassonis <stuff@decentral.ch> wrote:

> 
> 
> On October 8, 2014 4:53:36 PM Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org> wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Jeremy is aware that the wiki is down but doesn't have much
> > time to devote to it, so we should look for a new solution for hosting
> > and maintaining it in the future.
> 
> I could do the hosting for free, as me and a friend run a little hosting 
> business.
> I'd have to know what software you'd need on the server, but this shouldn't 
> be a problem, we have ubuntu servers with apache, php, mysql and postgres, 
> normal stuff. If you need something else, we could install that, too.

How about using Alpine Linux for it so its powered by musl libc?

-nc

Re: Release very far behind schedule

[Tim Tassonis]

On October 8, 2014 10:09:49 PM Natanael Copa <ncopa@alpinelinux.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:50:10 +0200
> Tim Tassonis <stuff@decentral.ch> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On October 8, 2014 4:53:36 PM Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Jeremy is aware that the wiki is down but doesn't have much
> > > time to devote to it, so we should look for a new solution for hosting
> > > and maintaining it in the future.
> >
> > I could do the hosting for free, as me and a friend run a little hosting
> > business.
> > I'd have to know what software you'd need on the server, but this shouldn't
> > be a problem, we have ubuntu servers with apache, php, mysql and postgres,
> > normal stuff. If you need something else, we could install that, too.
>
> How about using Alpine Linux for it so its powered by musl libc?
>
> -nc

Well, it would be a shared hosting on an existing system, so the os cannot 
be changed, I'm afraid.
Tim

Re: Release very far behind schedule

[Rich Felker]

On Thu, Oct 09, 2014 at 12:57:46PM +0200, Tim Tassonis wrote:
> >> On October 8, 2014 4:53:36 PM Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org> wrote:
> >> > Jeremy is aware that the wiki is down but doesn't have much
> >> > time to devote to it, so we should look for a new solution for hosting
> >> > and maintaining it in the future.
> >>
> >> I could do the hosting for free, as me and a friend run a little hosting
> >> business.
> >> I'd have to know what software you'd need on the server, but this shouldn't
> >> be a problem, we have ubuntu servers with apache, php, mysql and postgres,
> >> normal stuff. If you need something else, we could install that, too.
> >
> >How about using Alpine Linux for it so its powered by musl libc?

While not essential, this would certainly be nice.

> Well, it would be a shared hosting on an existing system, so the os
> cannot be changed, I'm afraid.

I don't want to be micro-managing things like hosting and maintenance
of the wiki, which is obviously something of a time-drain. However, I
do tend to think shared hosting is a poor solution these days:

- It makes it a lot more of a pain to move, if we need to do so again
  in the future -- instead of just re-deploying a fully working system
  image, individual software components need to be installed and
  configured to match the expectations of the site.

- It's generally much less robust and secure. Security bugs, or just
  out-of-control memory usage and load, from another site on the same
  hosting can bring down or compromise the wiki. Being that it's just
  the wiki and not the git/release hosting, that's not a huge concern,
  but it still counts for something.

I'm ok with keeping any options open for now, but let's see if we can
get some more to consider too. All in all, the more-important issue
anyway seems to be making sure we have somebody who's going to be with
the project for at least a moderately long term and have time and
resources to devote to keeping the wiki running well -- dealing with
spam, account troubles, hosting problems, etc.

Rich

Wiki Hosting (Re: Release very far behind schedule)

[William Haddon]

Hi all.

I am a lurker on this mailing list, and have also contributed 
occasional patches to musl. I am also running a small business that 
provides web hosting. While I am unfortunately not in a position to be 
able to provide hosting for free, I could rent a separate VPS and host 
the musl wiki using Alpine Linux for a slightly higher fee than I 
charge for shared hosting. As a fan of musl, if I like working with 
Alpine Linux, I might consider using it for other customers. It looks 
like you were previously using ikiWiki based on Perl for the wiki. I 
could use ikiWiki, or if there were problems with that, I could instead 
use any other wiki software of your choice, or for an additional fee 
develop new wiki software. Just another option for you to consider.

Cheers,
William Haddon

On 10/10/2014 01:31:04 AM, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2014 at 12:57:46PM +0200, Tim Tassonis wrote:
> > >> On October 8, 2014 4:53:36 PM Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
> wrote:
> > >> > Jeremy is aware that the wiki is down but doesn't have much
> > >> > time to devote to it, so we should look for a new solution for
> hosting
> > >> > and maintaining it in the future.
> > >>
> > >> I could do the hosting for free, as me and a friend run a little
> hosting
> > >> business.
> > >> I'd have to know what software you'd need on the server, but 
> this
> shouldn't
> > >> be a problem, we have ubuntu servers with apache, php, mysql and
> postgres,
> > >> normal stuff. If you need something else, we could install that,
> too.
> > >
> > >How about using Alpine Linux for it so its powered by musl libc?
> 
> While not essential, this would certainly be nice.
> 
> > Well, it would be a shared hosting on an existing system, so the os
> > cannot be changed, I'm afraid.
> 
> I don't want to be micro-managing things like hosting and maintenance
> of the wiki, which is obviously something of a time-drain. However, I
> do tend to think shared hosting is a poor solution these days:
> 
> - It makes it a lot more of a pain to move, if we need to do so again
>   in the future -- instead of just re-deploying a fully working 
> system
>   image, individual software components need to be installed and
>   configured to match the expectations of the site.
> 
> - It's generally much less robust and secure. Security bugs, or just
>   out-of-control memory usage and load, from another site on the same
>   hosting can bring down or compromise the wiki. Being that it's just
>   the wiki and not the git/release hosting, that's not a huge 
> concern,
>   but it still counts for something.
> 
> I'm ok with keeping any options open for now, but let's see if we can
> get some more to consider too. All in all, the more-important issue
> anyway seems to be making sure we have somebody who's going to be 
> with
> the project for at least a moderately long term and have time and
> resources to devote to keeping the wiki running well -- dealing with
> spam, account troubles, hosting problems, etc.
> 
> Rich
> 

Re: Wiki Hosting (Re: Release very far behind schedule)

[Рысь]

Well, if someone here still wants to find hosting for musl wiki (or other future _musl_ infrastructure), I can give one or more qemu KVM for free with your OS in it.

The only limitations/requirements:
- Control console will not be available.
- Single public IP address with other websites which are routed through nginx frontend.
- If you need really big amount of traffic, then it's not an option.
- You must send your prepared OS image which is ready to do things.

Re: Release very far behind schedule

[Anthony G. Basile]

On 10/08/14 10:53, Rich Felker wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> First of all, some apologies: both that the 1.1.5 release is quite a
> bit behind the roadmap schedule, and that the wiki is down (and thus
> the roadmap isn't visible so nobody can see how far behind the release
> is :-). Jeremy is aware that the wiki is down but doesn't have much
> time to devote to it, so we should look for a new solution for hosting
> and maintaining it in the future.
>
> With regards to the release, I think everything important is done. I'd
> like to run some tests and I'd like feedback if there are any new
> regressions or pending _trivial_ things I'm forgetting (trivial in the
> sense of small, obviously-correct patches that I might have
> overlooked, not anything that's going to require review or
> discussion). Hopefully I can get this out in the next day or two. It's
> been "basically done" for quite a while now, which in a sense is a
> good thing -- it means there's been a good window of opportunity for
> catching regressions -- but it's never fun to have stagnation of
> development like this.
>
> Rich
>

A rebuild of the gentoo stage3's for amd64 and i686 showed no 
regressions.  I have not yet tested arm and mips.

-- 
Anthony G. Basile, Ph. D.
Chair of Information Technology
D'Youville College
Buffalo, NY 14201
(716) 829-8197