From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/11692 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jens Gustedt Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: Documentation of memcpy and undefined behavior in memset Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 01:52:25 +0200 Organization: inria.fr Message-ID: <20170707015225.592e1bb3@inria.fr> References: <0F9B48AD-C5B3-44B6-8D82-0985CF8604A0@trust-in-soft.com> <20170706162353.GC1627@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20170706171101.GD1627@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20170706172218.GE1627@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20170706181326.GF1627@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20170706205218.6b3b03a2@inria.fr> <20170706192307.GB10974@port70.net> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Sig_/7DNVVyUbPY9cZqpBJ00eJP7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499385168 30507 195.159.176.226 (6 Jul 2017 23:52:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 23:52:48 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-11705-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Fri Jul 07 01:52:42 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dTGZX-0007Jn-1v for gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 01:52:35 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 19638 invoked by uid 550); 6 Jul 2017 23:52:38 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Original-Received: (qmail 19614 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2017 23:52:37 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,319,1496095200"; d="scan'208";a="282416858" In-Reply-To: <20170706192307.GB10974@port70.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.14.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAACRQTFRFERslNjAsLTE9Ok9wUk9TaUs8iWhSrYZkj42Rz6aD3sGZ Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:11692 Archived-At: --Sig_/7DNVVyUbPY9cZqpBJ00eJP7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 21:23:07 +0200 Szabolcs Nagy wrote: > * Jens Gustedt [2017-07-06 20:52:18 +0200]: > > Now when it comes to changes for a new standard, people would > > certainly be more open-minded. So if anybody thinks they want to > > make a proposal for C2x, don't hesitate. =20 >=20 > i wonder if c2x design will be done more openly > than usual wg14 practice.. otherwise there is no > point comming up with proposals, they won't even > look at it until some member presents the idea > at a meeting. WG14 practice is to be conservative for the sake of backwards compatibility. If you bring in new ideas, you have to be very careful to convince people of your point and that it fits well into the existing. They (mostly) want to standardize common practice, so if there are reference implementations for your ideas, the better. If you don't have anybody at the meeting to defend an idea, it is just hard to defend it. That is not different than in other organizations. If you are working for a company/institution that can afford this, convince them that you want to go to the meetings. This is two weeks a year, with some travel cost, something like 5000 =E2=82=AC / year or so (without the work cost) should do. This is our industry, C is an important part of it and I really don't understand why there are not more companies sending their people. This is not a big investment. (But they do send them to the C++ meetings instead, e.g, perhaps because it's more fancy?) If you can't afford to go to the meetings, speak to a member, try to get feedback on your ideas. Co-author DRs or proposals, and see for yourself how your ideas fit into the standard. I think musl would be a perfect code base to try new things out that are related to the C library. (Not meaning to integrate extension into the distribution, but to build demonstrators.) But this is not enough, a thorrow write up must follow, and you'd have to have some breath. Jens --=20 :: INRIA Nancy Grand Est ::: Camus ::::::: ICube/ICPS ::: :: ::::::::::::::: office Strasbourg : +33 368854536 :: :: :::::::::::::::::::::: gsm France : +33 651400183 :: :: ::::::::::::::: gsm international : +49 15737185122 :: :: http://icube-icps.unistra.fr/index.php/Jens_Gustedt :: --Sig_/7DNVVyUbPY9cZqpBJ00eJP7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQSN9stI2OFN1pLljN0P0+hp2tU34gUCWV7NOQAKCRAP0+hp2tU3 4pR9AJ9mSCb18wqfn1RKXF5HoUADnuNmGgCdE0faPjyKnqlwqzDahGfcmQC4sPw= =l1rJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/7DNVVyUbPY9cZqpBJ00eJP7--