From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/12450 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jens Gustedt Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: Why are stdin/stdout/stderr `FILE *const` in musl? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 17:01:07 +0100 Organization: inria.fr Message-ID: <20180202170107.2df62fe5@inria.fr> References: <1E109BA9-57C0-42DB-9B43-8ADE27F9E76C@hanauska.name> <20180202150132.tzocezrj5vskos66@voyager> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Sig_/y9puIVrHib..UH3R7pxk=VM"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1517587182 24019 195.159.176.226 (2 Feb 2018 15:59:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 15:59:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: musl@lists.openwall.com To: CodingMarkus Original-X-From: musl-return-12466-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Fri Feb 02 16:59:38 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ehdkV-0005pn-M9 for gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 16:59:35 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 21649 invoked by uid 550); 2 Feb 2018 16:01:38 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Original-Received: (qmail 21628 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2018 16:01:38 -0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.46,448,1511823600"; d="scan'208";a="311835824" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0git10 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAACRQTFRFERslNjAsLTE9Ok9wUk9TaUs8iWhSrYZkj42Rz6aD3sGZ Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:12450 Archived-At: --Sig_/y9puIVrHib..UH3R7pxk=VM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, On Fri, 2 Feb 2018 16:30:03 +0100 CodingMarkus wrote: > > On 2018-02-02, at 16:01, Markus Wichmann wrote: > >=20 > > Why would you ever need a pointer to stdout or stderr? =20 >=20 >=20 > "Why would you ever need" is no valid argument. It=E2=80=99s no argument = for > anything and especially never an argument against anything. No, but the exact definition that I gave you from the standard, is certainly an argument. Did you see this? I didn't see a reply from you to this. I checked the provision that this is an expression is there at least since C99. > https://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/tree/main/llvm5/dynamiclibrary-fi= x-build-musl.patch?id=3DHEAD What this shows is that they are clearly wrong in doing EXPLICIT_SYMBOL(stderr); stderr is *not* an explicit symbol and should not be. > And that the people who themselves makes the currently second most > successful open source compiler on the market act outside the C > standard doesn=E2=80=99t sound very convincing to me. If in doubt, these > people know the C standard better than I probably ever will. Some of them certainly do. I hope that you are not suggesting that the people that replied to you here on that list don't know the C standard at least as good. > I=E2=80=99m only worried with how interchangeable musl is as a standard l= ibc > because the idea of a standard is that it guarantees compatibility. exactly, so what they are doing is to be frowned upon (In particular, because this is a compiler framework that is making assumptions about the library framework that is not justified.) > If there are ten libc libraries and they all conform to the same > standard, As said in my other mail, this is undefined behavior LaLaLand. So implementors can do what they want, they don't even have to document it. But it is just not portable. Now, if you are claiming that this would be an important feature, one could certainly at least discuss it. But what I heard so far from you was only reference to authority (llvm must know what they are doing). You were not arguing why they are doing this and why this would be important. Jens --=20 :: INRIA Nancy Grand Est ::: Camus ::::::: ICube/ICPS ::: :: ::::::::::::::: office Strasbourg : +33 368854536 :: :: :::::::::::::::::::::: gsm France : +33 651400183 :: :: ::::::::::::::: gsm international : +49 15737185122 :: :: http://icube-icps.unistra.fr/index.php/Jens_Gustedt :: --Sig_/y9puIVrHib..UH3R7pxk=VM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQSN9stI2OFN1pLljN0P0+hp2tU34gUCWnSLQwAKCRAP0+hp2tU3 4qG3AKCB9CvJoriogd65ymZ5BPG2Jm0nEgCfb7wOsvyOvhEQ7edR6fLJIt9LioQ= =WUNf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/y9puIVrHib..UH3R7pxk=VM--