From: Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
To: Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de>
Cc: musl@lists.openwall.com
Subject: Re: [musl] TCP support in the stub resolver
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 21:24:41 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200420012441.GW11469@brightrain.aerifal.cx> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <871roj51x3.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de>
On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:12:56AM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Rich Felker:
>
> >> No, you can reuse the connection for the second query (in most cases).
> >> However, for maximum robustness, you should not send the second query
> >> until the first response has arrived (no pipelining). You may still
> >> need a new connection for the second query if the TCP stream ends
> >> without a response, though.
> >
> > That's why you need one per request -- so you can make them
> > concurrently (can't assume pipelining).
>
> Since the other query has likely already been cached in the recursive
> resolver due to the UDP query (which is already in progress), the
> second TCP query only saves one round-trip, I think. Is that really
> worth it?
If the nameserver is not local, absolutely. A round trip can be over
500 ms.
> >> Then it might be possible that no one will notice the missing TCP
> >> fallback.
> >
> > Really almost no one has noticed it so far, and the places where it
> > was noticed were buggy (IIRC Google or Cloudflare) nameservers that
> > were sending an empty response on truncation rather than a properly
> > truncated response, which seems to have since been fixed. (And in this
> > case the fallback would have been a major performance hit, so it was
> > nice that it was caught and fixed instead).
>
> SPF lookups for various domains return other TXT records, which push
> the size of the response over the limit. There is no way to fix this
> on the recursive resolver side because the TXT RRset is itself larger
> than 512 bytes.
>
> TXT RRsets for DKIM can also approach, but i have not seen them cross
> it.
>
> This is just one application, receiving mail with some form of
> authentcation, that requires TCP fallback. I'm sure there other
> applications.
Yes. I don't claim there aren't potential cases where it's wanted,
just that it hasn't come up aside from the buggy NS with empty TC
response.
Anything related to mail is a case where you really really should be
running a local DNSSEC-validating nameserver, which adds to the appeal
of just doing TCP to begin with (activated by use-vc) or not at all.
But I think before making any decisions I should get started on the
prereq work to make it even possible. The core is currently built
around having an array of up to 2 (for A and AAAA at same time) [512]
arrays the response packets go into. That's changeable without too
much work but requires some care since this is attack surface code.
Rich
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-04-20 1:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <fce05ab0ed102dec10e4163dd4ce5d8095d2ffd7.camel@web.de>
[not found] ` <20200412211807.GC41308@straasha.imrryr.org>
[not found] ` <d64b1b8801cc5350e9d27dd109dd2446e7d4b860.camel@web.de>
[not found] ` <20200413024746.GD41308@straasha.imrryr.org>
[not found] ` <b38668e94b2781003a14c6dca3d41edf33e347e2.camel@web.de>
[not found] ` <A2FE67B5-A9A9-4A0F-A59D-78FF2AB992B7@dukhovni.org>
[not found] ` <f79a9f0c369607fc38bef06fec521eaf3ab23d8c.camel@web.de>
[not found] ` <6E8A9D4F-18CE-4ADA-A5B4-D14DB30C99E5@dukhovni.org>
[not found] ` <25e70f31f0c4629f7a7d3957649d08be06144067.camel@web.de>
[not found] ` <CECAFB36-DA1B-4EFB-ACD1-294E3B121B2E@dukhovni.org>
2020-04-13 18:35 ` [musl] Re: Outgoing DANE not working Rich Felker
[not found] ` <20200413190412.GF41308@straasha.imrryr.org>
[not found] ` <20200413193505.GY11469@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
[not found] ` <20200413214138.GG41308@straasha.imrryr.org>
[not found] ` <20200414035303.GZ11469@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
[not found] ` <87v9m0hdjk.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de>
[not found] ` <20200415180149.GH11469@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
[not found] ` <87imi0haf7.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de>
[not found] ` <20200417034059.GF11469@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
[not found] ` <878siucvqd.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de>
2020-04-17 16:07 ` Rich Felker
2020-04-18 17:14 ` [musl] TCP support in the stub resolver (was: Re: Outgoing DANE not working) Florian Weimer
2020-04-19 0:03 ` Rich Felker
2020-04-19 8:12 ` [musl] TCP support in the stub resolver Florian Weimer
2020-04-20 1:24 ` Rich Felker [this message]
2020-04-20 6:26 ` Florian Weimer
2020-04-20 17:39 ` Rich Felker
2020-04-21 9:48 ` Florian Weimer
2020-04-21 15:02 ` Rich Felker
2020-04-21 17:26 ` Florian Weimer
2020-05-01 22:02 ` Rich Felker
2020-05-02 15:28 ` Florian Weimer
2020-05-02 15:44 ` Rich Felker
2020-05-02 22:52 ` Bartosz Brachaczek
2020-05-03 8:46 ` Florian Weimer
2020-05-03 16:51 ` Rich Felker
2020-05-03 17:19 ` Florian Weimer
2020-05-03 18:18 ` Florian Weimer
2020-05-03 19:09 ` Rich Felker
2020-05-03 19:34 ` Florian Weimer
2020-05-03 19:45 ` Rich Felker
[not found] ` <20200414061620.GI41308@straasha.imrryr.org>
[not found] ` <20200414160641.GC11469@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
[not found] ` <20200414215951.GJ41308@straasha.imrryr.org>
2020-05-19 1:37 ` [musl] Re: Outgoing DANE not working Rich Felker
[not found] ` <20200519023814.GN68966@straasha.imrryr.org>
2020-05-19 5:44 ` Rich Felker
[not found] ` <20200519090610.GO68966@straasha.imrryr.org>
2020-05-19 14:00 ` Rich Felker
2020-05-19 14:23 ` Wietse Venema
2020-05-19 14:28 ` Rich Felker
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