From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 531 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2022 12:52:33 -0000 Received: from second.openwall.net (193.110.157.125) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 26 Sep 2022 12:52:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 22449 invoked by uid 550); 26 Sep 2022 12:52:30 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 22405 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2022 12:52:29 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=inria.fr; s=dc; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version; bh=w53DPmCO3UlfaZtFHkU4wuZ1hRSLRx4+5qSZShMdyvw=; b=j4PNa/jRvkBRMDAkeBENP0ummDabGMIPNbOz1ioz+UOPrn0acDu9UdCJ bxQLRUh2MvBe/BnCoch01l309NbEakIZ5WikTlaRbOGzzCDvZwl8+ODQb bBiU6Z6Sx7OwbgY8tPdhEM8hAm/r33HXl56Hzas71ZbyAsN0ajXcPYBkg M=; Authentication-Results: mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr; dkim=none (message not signed) header.i=none; spf=SoftFail smtp.mailfrom=jens.gustedt@inria.fr; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) d=inria.fr X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.93,346,1654552800"; d="scan'208";a="54529962" Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:52:17 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?SuKCkeKCmeKCmw==?= Gustedt To: Florian Weimer Cc: enh , musl@lists.openwall.com Message-ID: <20220926145217.4376bc30@inria.fr> In-Reply-To: <87leq6if61.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> References: <20220923162518.56284329@inria.fr> <20220923174054.73258a83@inria.fr> <20220924093106.41e53819@inria.fr> <87leq6if61.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Organization: inria.fr X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.0.0 (GTK+ 3.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAACRQTFRFERslNjAsLTE9Ok9wUk9TaUs8iWhSrYZkj42Rz6aD3sGZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/iN6nQfCyL2TL8hwERceVwko"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Subject: Re: [musl] C23 implications for C libraries --Sig_/iN6nQfCyL2TL8hwERceVwko Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Florian, you are turning what I wanted to say upside down. I was explicitly targeting the participation of the "big players". on Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:49:26 +0200 you (Florian Weimer ) wrote: > Joining a =E2=80=9CNational Body=E2=80=9D requires a non-nominal yearly f= ee, depending > on where you live, and even then the relevant committee or group there > needs to appoint you to WG14 (which may require participation in > additonal, regular meetings). I'm sure there are ways around that if > you know the right people, but I expect the issues around > representation you observe are directly related to these admission > policies. The big players generally already participate in national bodies and by that have no difficulty at all to send personal and real work force into whatever ISO committee they like. Not to participate in WG14 is an informed choice by most of them. We had some participation by some of them in the past. These people quickly disappeared when it was clear that this was not just lobbying and name dropping, but that in the contrary competence, persistence, real engagement and substantial work is required to have an influence. You are right though, that for small enterprises participation might be difficult. All the more it is interesting to note that a large fraction of WG14 comes exactly from such contexts. So yes, the ISO system is less than ideal, and I have not much of an answer on how to improve that situation. What I tried to emphasize upon is that we would be in a better shape if important parts of the industry would take up their responsibility. There are multiple ways to do so, be it by sending in their own people, subsidizing those that are already there, providing grants, whatever. Thanks J=E2=82=91=E2=82=99=E2=82=9B --=20 :: INRIA Nancy Grand Est ::: Camus ::::::: ICube/ICPS ::: :: :::::::::::::::::::::: gsm France : +33 651400183 :: :: ::::::::::::::: gsm international : +49 15737185122 :: :: http://icube-icps.unistra.fr/index.php/Jens_Gustedt :: --Sig_/iN6nQfCyL2TL8hwERceVwko Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQSN9stI2OFN1pLljN0P0+hp2tU34gUCYzGggQAKCRAP0+hp2tU3 4uAjAJ45IIL1vynPcbelbxHdPyFo7dVnMQCeKh18g+e68cDjVvrUlx+tK4itgmc= =2SbF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/iN6nQfCyL2TL8hwERceVwko--