From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/14285 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "A. Wilcox" Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: Revisiting 64-bit time_t Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 03:36:19 -0500 Message-ID: <3424A001-EBF1-412E-B0F4-A7E834966807@adelielinux.org> References: <20190628150659.GD1506@brightrain.aerifal.cx> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-F49289C4-0C52-4E83-AAE0-6AA0AE6326F0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="13374"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-14301-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Sat Jun 29 10:36:42 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hh8qe-0003Ji-1d for gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 10:36:40 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 7259 invoked by uid 550); 29 Jun 2019 08:36:37 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Original-Received: (qmail 7235 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2019 08:36:36 -0000 In-Reply-To: <20190628150659.GD1506@brightrain.aerifal.cx> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15E302) Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:14285 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-F49289C4-0C52-4E83-AAE0-6AA0AE6326F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Overall this seems like a decent proposal. However... On Jun 28, 2019, at 10:06 AM, Rich Felker wrote: > However Y2038 is not all that far off, desktop/server distros really > have rather little interest left in 32-bit archs (especially not > coordinating a costly ABI swap just for them) This is really incorrect. We at Ad=C3=A9lie are QUITE interested in 32-bit a= rchitectures including: * 32-bit PowerPC Still heavily used by people with Power Macs in addition to some people who r= un 32-bit userland on 64-bit POWER systems. * 32-bit ARM Widely, widely used in SoCs the world over, including the previous generatio= n Raspberry Pi, the Pi Zero, many ODROIDs, and a great number of current and= previous generation smartphones. * 32-bit Intel Of course you have the people with 32-bit binaries including Steam games (wh= ich would need something like gcompat to run on musl systems anyway), but yo= u also have the people who cannot for whatever reason upgrade their hardware= to a functional 64-bit system. I personally know at least three people tha= t are disadvantaged and still use a Pentium 4 era system as their only compu= ter. It=E2=80=99s not just us. The people at postmarketOS care very much about 32= -bit ARM, since that is the majority of the hardware they are targeting. You= also have Void Linux which supports all three of the arches I listed above.= Please, please do not write off 32-bit desktop usage. Ubuntu does *not* spe= ak for the wider community nor for the majority of Linux users. And we, the= distros named above, all hope to be able to support the people Ubuntu are w= anting to abandon for the foreseeable future. Thank you for researching this issue, for writing this proposal, and for all= that you do in musl. Best to you and yours, =E2=80=94arw=20 -- A. Wilcox (Sent from my iPhone - not signed) Project Lead, Ad=C3=A9lie Linux https://adelielinux.org --Apple-Mail-F49289C4-0C52-4E83-AAE0-6AA0AE6326F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Overall this seems like a decent proposal. H= owever...

On Jun 28, 2019, at 10:06 AM, Rich Felker &= lt;dalias@libc.org> wrote:
Howe= ver Y2038 is not all that far off, desktop/server distros really
have rather little interest left in 32-bit ar= chs (especially not
coordinating a costly ABI swap just for t= hem)


This is= really incorrect.  We at Ad=C3=A9lie are QUITE interested in 32-bit ar= chitectures including:

* 32-bit PowerPC
S= till heavily used by people with Power Macs in addition to some people who r= un 32-bit userland on 64-bit POWER systems.

* 32-bi= t ARM
Widely, widely used in SoCs the world over, including the pr= evious generation Raspberry Pi, the Pi Zero, many ODROIDs, and a great numbe= r of current and previous generation smartphones.

*= 32-bit Intel
Of course you have the people with 32-bit binaries i= ncluding Steam games (which would need something like gcompat to run on musl= systems anyway), but you also have the people who cannot for whatever reaso= n upgrade their hardware to a functional 64-bit system.  I personally k= now at least three people that are disadvantaged and still use a Pentium 4 e= ra system as their only computer.


It= =E2=80=99s not just us. The people at postmarketOS care very much about 32-b= it ARM, since that is the majority of the hardware they are targeting. You a= lso have Void Linux which supports all three of the arches I listed above.


Please, please do not write off 32-bi= t desktop usage.  Ubuntu does *not* speak for the wider community nor f= or the majority of Linux users.  And we, the distros named above, all h= ope to be able to support the people Ubuntu are wanting to abandon for the f= oreseeable future.


Thank you for res= earching this issue, for writing this proposal, and for all that you do in m= usl.

Best to you and yours,
=E2=80=94arw&= nbsp;
--
A. Wilcox (Se= nt from my iPhone - not signed)
Project Lead, A= d=C3=A9lie Linux
= --Apple-Mail-F49289C4-0C52-4E83-AAE0-6AA0AE6326F0--