From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/14383 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Everitt Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: [PATCH] Define NULL as __null in C++ mode when using GCC or Clang. Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 21:19:32 +0100 Message-ID: <34427b80-6f9a-041c-5ce0-305ac97d869b@iee.org> References: <20190709193826.GR1506@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20190710020357.GI21055@port70.net> <871ryycs9n.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> <20190710164446.GS1506@brightrain.aerifal.cx> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AF0RsYUB9w2SFaUkF7G4Qt8dHj9X6qqWt" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="128475"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-14399-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Wed Jul 10 22:19:51 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by blaine.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hlJ4A-000XGz-K1 for gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:19:50 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 23674 invoked by uid 550); 10 Jul 2019 20:19:48 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Original-Received: (qmail 23656 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2019 20:19:47 -0000 Openpgp: id=BA266E0525CFAB101523351B4C30334F93C22371 Autocrypt: addr=m.j.everitt@iee.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFngC8gBEAC8/nQZrVrr8v0kaD4OLw8UftKfPQFEMGY/rnFA81M9IvdyPP8/8u/+9AGc DEN3i/LRvW0KUBdKIngcUY/p1M/sJqBspMOBaoOLp6K53/2uxcGXw62TulQJU+7a37Jukv2r HNSyZzM6II0myConmJa8ja1HfsiVoqDrqNigBF+Sts1kqG4xg8YeyOl1Tk+LZwC+ukzzutE9 pbpIL2snu5I6a6RNi9DtbB9FZKzkbXx8TlpMXrcorNryOLQHPRw6tir5Z8kpetiJgoEpKGBX botDOWLVW+s9XnwPzAFmL03gH+3reY+LfrQWQTDphfZIp75caZQUicQHpc1NUr+8bLr3n79A FCPY3CfWriGn17aqaaXDFfeYPJIlH8UmOXI41JqR47C5eYFbocA8A4k7cGVAdKJFWLy51165 dt7qZyvUQc/olzrZOrvoiWXA8ELg7pqxxObM4kl0502IHz9kb6Lt712HvfjH5yAP8zTYpetn sCPR9aVVSQsRgluNrQFlKpVmUXbeBLjw05UBEunS6prDwXOyZdn7t03LSOlK2nBGM+gtxg8l /0Nb1saYMGGN8qtO4RLFRiRBc20kNz01cC89PKRIXYlW9dRZNH1zebIUCAg+S4hSmmV4uvaZ XRADb2G+ZZ2jj9cNTTnI+X1/a19S8XjBZ4z+9+Hty4nhoB6fawARAQABzSNNLiBKLiBFdmVy aXR0IDxtLmouZXZlcml0dEBpZWUub3JnPsLBgAQTAQgAKgIbAwUJA8JnAAULCQgHAwUVCgkI CwUWAgMBAAIeAQIX In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:6iG4PA0FP1FL1xNNVU3HysfjnxPNKU7Mjl0RYOcCR2iX/555vJi vuLeWgtgBIZMoMmKHoE0Aaj5whe8YKiSruBxYoSc2V3Q1Y9L3E0Cy66O86eh/zlsrcz693Q p9Ft69fBQoA4k+WKYfIJfh/KU4Sp7R9GITZcpj3Jbn4TKxcSjpUanlbElrx9Vxno7KQEer1 2wGX6ClejI24l8008IuSw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:+oK0n5KhO20=:Mdrj2k1vCQj/iTRpvvDFcV tj3Z8HyBT0yDul5mdHChtKbfxEu9hW2FFcZUmgk1QwSctLJdA5lqBImoH8twQXngf7llIhnCr RX9ZxS94glAmUgl2iXT105BiG304/uPLuFu8oEORXT/zEEY9ATQgWQrhFvnax6kBSJhsd1Emp ScmcZpr+7RlS8uWE5hURYgSIq7ru//pUQvwbB+LdMAgENX57fJ5r/f2bOqb6ufpjKxfJg/Tn9 fW08MCuymeazx4dz/UbWa7ig226zKKdhtM3jbNvx9VtUyHINt9sd4MwdMlQ1CG97ft5B6S7sM 53tQi3AJ/BmLqS/GDOYGRntOFw832Sznk0fa7jkMWl17r7eGUxeBWSZ7gTTi9lc7jiVKfJnd2 C7G8dLNULg63fm32bjonvRhGT8UYwEaxZZ2jT/J1QjiIjQZUahznzBf7+39gGfHQHgKeTEACU I6ATYd9lGD1sZ6Yml75gSqbDYtZlSH1q8gcuNtVsT1g6xe/OJro7/rlnmVdFbaMo8cU8sEbJ5 lciVZ1i3hp+eF0VmH0/YN6v/t4yLkNy1lz6E6K3/jSlE1gMEGmRJ//WYonR8uO8bypQ7iYC3a fbkzPxyT7GnJjHht6ZK8GJ/jk/dWFVIJKFv6FU/fiL72iyRZU+ZxgR/arP+i3cGMOFAfwgmPo T2b7dvckGY8Q6+VxH/Ciqi41n1pB5keou0UEF6ruk48sA/mxJa7T3jPNsYyc4jhD46YLKTfHk Yhz7v537b2GC7njXHyf347tU4prZa1Qs1h/8jT9ndI8R1kiPWGljDVKzHkXWajk11HYd9FVR Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:14383 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --AF0RsYUB9w2SFaUkF7G4Qt8dHj9X6qqWt Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="C0bnILc2LRVLgltyo7owJjIs0QqIItcuW"; protected-headers="v1" From: Michael Everitt To: musl@lists.openwall.com Message-ID: <34427b80-6f9a-041c-5ce0-305ac97d869b@iee.org> Subject: Re: [musl] [PATCH] Define NULL as __null in C++ mode when using GCC or Clang. References: <20190709193826.GR1506@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20190710020357.GI21055@port70.net> <871ryycs9n.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> <20190710164446.GS1506@brightrain.aerifal.cx> In-Reply-To: --C0bnILc2LRVLgltyo7owJjIs0QqIItcuW Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8A98C89BA872D64D97A6B7B6" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8A98C89BA872D64D97A6B7B6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/07/19 21:11, A. Wilcox wrote: > On Jul 10, 2019, at 12:35 PM, James Y Knight > wrote: > >> It's a question which is impossible to ever answer in the negative -- >> there always _may be_ any sort of terrible software implemented out >> there, somewhere. But, I do doubt any such relevant compilers actually= >> exist. > > Or, put another way, it has always seemed to me that one of musl's tene= ts > is to "fail fast and break hard" on egregiously invalid code. I'd argue= > "pretending to be GNU C++ and not having __null" is much more egregious= > than "code still using NULL in C++". =C2=A0Therefore it's better to bre= ak the > invalid compiler (which could have any number of other bugs) than break= > the C++ code. > > Sincerely, > --someone who actually enjoys using musl and also actually enjoys using= > C++, a seemingly rare breed > > -- > A. Wilcox (Sent from my iPhone - not signed) > Project Lead, Ad=C3=A9lie Linux > https://adelielinux.org You need to be cloned before you become a target of some weird computing museum somewhere ... [but this isn't news, and very OT...] --------------8A98C89BA872D64D97A6B7B6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/07/19 21:11, A. Wilcox wrote:
On Jul 10, 2019, at 12:35 PM, James Y Knight <jykn= ight@google.com> wrote:

It's a question which is impossible to ever answer in the negative -- there always _may be_ any sort of terrible software implemented out there, somewhere. But, I do doubt any such relevant compilers actually exist.

Or, put another way, it has always seemed to me that one of musl's tenets is to "fail fast and break hard" on egregiously invalid code. I'd argue "pretending to be GNU C++ and not having __null" is much more egregious than "code still using NULL in C++". =C2=A0Therefore it's better to break the invalid compiler (which could have any number of other bugs) than break the C++ code.

Sincerely,
--someone who actually enjoys using musl and also actually enjoys using C++, a seemingly rare breed

--
A. Wilcox (Sent from my iPhone - not signed)
Project Lead, Ad=C3=A9lie Linux
You need to be cloned before you become a target of some weird computing museum somewhere ...

[but this isn't news, and very OT...]
--------------8A98C89BA872D64D97A6B7B6-- --C0bnILc2LRVLgltyo7owJjIs0QqIItcuW-- --AF0RsYUB9w2SFaUkF7G4Qt8dHj9X6qqWt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJdJkhUAAoJEGPnxnn01DHd4MgP+wdFaQh3NBs/9mpi2PSC8aVF pRstu+kqxhHo3Yg4TKGawmlfJf2txJ+f7QKljvdIWtmSaloQSFmTJ6d4y7CUxpo8 okHYaqEqyLTfxbTlWyvhmBgqns0r67TnE770gBb/xpK2b8MxaPDrIHBOEu7upt7Y WFlNXoqFnlaVw8+w6WdeJRd3dNjgYlGmWd+BdJC68UBdhkBnSp2ub6yD0foNZLHr CI7n1NWB6SpSvUXaUOYbzA6FLIf3LblJZ55a1I5fIvK9GYLGjZwThYlB3Ywcztyf 5JpsIDSpkvUZTxqj8wghY7AxatSFzoiiXDY76qfIlTahOqW/nXvGk2SmOoe0kVhY yd+vDk3S1SSpINgZaBsehDF6R+K83qp0iIlJKpH08VCtOTj9FOsHFi0l6eFetVP8 C2jy5tOph0SX62UaM8e+f2ZbXW6WXY3jWm40y/8fL8ILOIs+C9DtmWo+32/170Mp u5dXrtvx9CL9R2X+kBvX23pY/p+mRXXjKrbh3zwIZhM+580i2SFQ68dRibAlqBrG hfY6TW7fSaQMlmuYV1fVFbJxB5Gj5iQoMA1WtMCzBl/q1fhe6xYWxj51ySh2T1aa 0Dwd3T0WjSpkw+LYBehj1wKnJr3S72MC3y5qOcSkMDUX3RHA3Xmuk3fVD8agpWQx ocsgte5hwwPLuByUYhms =t9VW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AF0RsYUB9w2SFaUkF7G4Qt8dHj9X6qqWt--