From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_HIGH,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25143 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2023 16:28:20 -0000 Received: from second.openwall.net (193.110.157.125) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Nov 2023 16:28:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 1570 invoked by uid 550); 28 Nov 2023 16:28:16 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 1535 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2023 16:28:15 -0000 X-Proofpoint-GUID: vxtq-4Nis3ExX3-6S0e5x7_5GeT2Q54C X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: vxtq-4Nis3ExX3-6S0e5x7_5GeT2Q54C X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.619,18.0.997 definitions=2023-11-28_18:2023-11-27,2023-11-28 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=interactive_user_notspam policy=interactive_user score=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=812 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2311060000 definitions=main-2311280131 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=content-type : mime-version : subject : from : in-reply-to : date : cc : content-transfer-encoding : message-id : references : to; s=20180706; bh=cL37Bw1Ka+DO9VPwdCRLEG77cEQhwHH/zxYFeOnRl1I=; b=Xw0dExpNIECjJqC4rBumsDJ9MdQhzHYeH8RJn816+6lWGolh6HJULtY5BYN/LuWgpImj pr/C33P6C7+Y0TGp7bQSDqG2mHsfIisjUwJyIkHIV5u/xY0PSoN8P2o9nMiI8CQd0KG4 9gUj768KQASREpjQq7lhhEAw8X6+eui1BQypWqyOl5MlhWI38QZt++Pn4CxxdneMtOhg rGFDe+ZFuEmSFj49dmoHW0eMcGbAS2WFMN7sctwhcK5YEETYmWp3ezEBzGbnwqBQP8Q2 GSNPM98L/zt8Cm7biAQ9ZNjZt6DgLtm43XZ4UX7GTKrCwCjDI9TsD5dTuKktX7LJACSv QQ== X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: 55a23b9415e7a1756fdbab528975a7df X-Va-E-CD: 938c8e4fd76e3e013edeb3d41379f883 X-Va-R-CD: 8a2faf3de2027b4a0bc7941d26d4bbde X-Va-ID: c07d3de7-5931-4fbd-9791-3682f5aec788 X-Va-CD: 0 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: 55a23b9415e7a1756fdbab528975a7df X-V-E-CD: 938c8e4fd76e3e013edeb3d41379f883 X-V-R-CD: 8a2faf3de2027b4a0bc7941d26d4bbde X-V-ID: 6acab3b8-6331-4538-94ce-f23db6011672 X-V-CD: 0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.619,18.0.997 definitions=2023-11-28_18:2023-11-27,2023-11-28 signatures=0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.300.61.1.2\)) From: Alastair Houghton In-reply-to: <2d066e446ec5e7a7005e745de53b8ac4e539ecd2.camel@postmarketos.org> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2023 16:27:53 +0000 Cc: musl@lists.openwall.com, Rich Felker Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: <42ED63DC-BF8D-4962-98AC-FCE0FDD7475F@apple.com> References: <3DD8D02A-0802-494E-B9E8-F00B457B86F6@apple.com> <2d066e446ec5e7a7005e745de53b8ac4e539ecd2.camel@postmarketos.org> To: Pablo Correa Gomez X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.300.61.1.2) Subject: Re: [musl] setlocale() again On 27 Oct 2023, at 21:15, Pablo Correa Gomez = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > I'm Pablo, one of postmarketOS maintainers, and by chance bumped into > this thread. I am super happy that you sent these messages, since I am > in the process of adding support for musl into Glib test suite, and > bumped into exactly the same problem as you did. Hi Pablo. Sorry it=E2=80=99s taken me a while to get back to you. I=E2=80=99= ve been somewhat busy with other things. > =46rom the developer perspective, I really like your proposal. = However, > from the user and distro maintainer perspective, I am a bit more > hesitant. As daily user of an alpine system localized in Spanish, I > acknowledge and identify the problem that you present of "1,024" vs > "1.024". However, I would argue that such thing is a small problem, > compared to completely losing localization in Spanish. In practice, I > would say both these examples are only theoric, since both Spanish and > French are supported musl-locales.=20 Indeed. I=E2=80=99d add to that though that with the present behaviour, = there=E2=80=99s very little incentive for people to add support for = their native language to Musl, since they can tolerate the unusual = behaviour wherein Musl pretends it has locale data for their language = (you yourself say =E2=80=9Csuch thing is a small problem=E2=80=9D, which = illustrates the point, I think). > So my real concern, is what could happen to all those users of > languages not supported by musl locales and that currently (to some > extent) have their systems localized? The exact same thing that happens to people in a similar position on = Glibc systems, namely they don=E2=80=99t get their programs localized = until they install locale data for the C library. This is not = especially unreasonable behaviour, honestly. I think the community of = people using Musl-based distributions is of above average competence and = many users will be entirely capable of submitting a patch to = musl-locales for their language if it isn=E2=80=99t supported (I=E2=80=99d= say the situation on Glibc-based distributions is different; there are = definitely less technically able users running desktop Linux these = days). Kind regards, Alastair.