From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27193 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2020 15:41:18 -0000 Received: from mother.openwall.net (195.42.179.200) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Jun 2020 15:41:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 29908 invoked by uid 550); 2 Jun 2020 15:41:16 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 29878 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2020 15:41:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=octaforge.org; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :cc:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh=Ev 3U1+YcxcS0uEY26T61s87WpkkSE9KspJAU1wU5SN0=; b=CUTTj5UPyDx7xx+DE4 QnWOog/hwvAMAWD3zjgqPQo/Ki11QB5hAsa3up6CghCDPUzgeB1M/36ycMAZEHlI +O/zzuIorAuU/78aut5/ugYLShTTgid/utC3iav+TqGpZyUDTG2mtNFAwtxCXkkU iJdB/iqxLO0Muh/stRIyUzMhK5V263uK5gzpAnLqevsxrB8KWuHl+838oltBa6qB 0JgCtN2D5BYV7tnt3fAggPZcB2FE3JlfnkbXdUfvcND6+ZQ7HrChgyUZrjcjFmJo 85mx0g2a27Ao8Vjytea50FyRU/TG5Rf7LhIjrJosnt6W3FeB/Lrc9HmVfE8iFm75 RyQQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=Ev3U1+YcxcS0uEY26T61s87WpkkSE9KspJAU1wU5S N0=; b=fv3EZwptw4EJW7eTW8ksztyFSJXuFYJC3W40UkGqQlKpgFQ8C7Pw5a8Jg 1rGApILg/vJRSxh4SZNKV+yLogixUhbZlr/1mcfTXOfoIKI8vq75MDZ7YrFwQCNt RvrolU8sEcf8tg7SijFiTJZlumGlqo/NSP5609eJpkYvWYkv58dTZ5/EexXUbN/D fodb9BnLaz644OjmRDTP1kdsnLNifphuFzP4zsLLt8P56T7gUxLx7rdKB500NGkd UVPaXiO7qdd4qdGoshfGFLpSynCRX27o2lHYGmPVMpBAlB2U23BBEDzZgZRJOZNb 8kkKLLIEa2P7dKl9I0oDqBA6nMwvQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudefjedgjedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfffgr nhhivghlucfmohhlvghsrgdfuceouggrnhhivghlsehotghtrghfohhrghgvrdhorhhgqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeffgffgtedvieevhffhvedthfdtteeuvdefgedtheetieff feefffeijeeihffgffenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpegurghnihgvlhesohgtthgrfhhorhhgvgdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-519-g0f677ba-fm-20200601.001-g0f677ba6 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <454e0d68-d69e-43fc-9a8c-0461dd5817a9@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20200602152724.GU25173@kitsune.suse.cz> References: <2047231.C4sosBPzcN@sheen> <20200602142337.GS25173@kitsune.suse.cz> <3aeb6dfe-ae23-42f9-ac23-16be6b54a850@www.fastmail.com> <20200602152724.GU25173@kitsune.suse.cz> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 17:40:39 +0200 From: "Daniel Kolesa" To: =?UTF-8?Q?Michal_Such=C3=A1nek?= Cc: "Joseph Myers" , libc-alpha@sourceware.org, eery@paperfox.es, musl@lists.openwall.com, "Will Springer" , "Palmer Dabbelt via binutils" , "via libc-dev" , linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [musl] Re: ppc64le and 32-bit LE userland compatibility On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, at 17:27, Michal Such=C3=A1nek wrote: > On Tue, Jun 02, 2020 at 05:13:25PM +0200, Daniel Kolesa wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, at 16:23, Michal Such=C3=A1nek wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 02, 2020 at 01:40:23PM +0000, Joseph Myers wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2 Jun 2020, Daniel Kolesa wrote: > > > >=20 > > > > > not be limited to being just userspace under ppc64le, but shou= ld be=20 > > > > > runnable on a native kernel as well, which should not be limit= ed to any=20 > > > > > particular baseline other than just PowerPC. > > > >=20 > > > > This is a fairly unusual approach to bringing up a new ABI. Sin= ce new=20 > > > > ABIs are more likely to be used on new systems rather than switc= hing ABI=20 > > > > on an existing installation, and since it can take quite some ti= me for all=20 > > > > the software support for a new ABI to become widely available in= =20 > > > > distributions, people developing new ABIs are likely to think ab= out what=20 > > > > new systems are going to be relevant in a few years' time when w= orking out=20 > > > > the minimum hardware requirements for the new ABI. (The POWER8 = minimum=20 > > > > for powerpc64le fits in with that, for example.) > > > That means that you cannot run ppc64le on FSL embedded CPUs (which= lack > > > the vector instructions in LE mode). Which may be fine with you bu= t > > > other people may want to support these. Can't really say if that's= good > > > idea or not but I don't foresee them going away in a few years, ei= ther. > >=20 > > well, ppc64le already cannot be run on those, as far as I know (I do= n't think it's possible to build ppc64le userland without VSX in any con= figuration) >=20 > What hardware are you targetting then? I did not notice anything > specific mentioned in the thread. >=20 > Naturally on POWER the first cpu that has LE support is POWER8 so you > can count on all other POWER8 features to be present. With other > architecture variants the situation is different. This is not true; nearly every 32-bit PowerPC CPU has LE support (all th= e way back to 6xx), these would be the native-hardware targets for the p= ort (would need kernel support implemented, but it's technically possibl= e). As far as 64-bit CPUs go, POWER7 is the first one that could in practice= run the current ppc64le configuration, but in glibc it's limited to POW= ER8 and in gcc the default for powerpc64le is also POWER8 (however, it i= s perfectly possible to configure gcc for POWER7 and use musl libc with = it). >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Michal >