From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/2538 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Spencer Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: NULL Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 14:47:42 +0100 Message-ID: <50ED74FE.9030306@barfooze.de> References: <50ED4E45.6050801@barfooze.de> <20130109130927.GA2947@openwall.com> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1357739315 11233 80.91.229.3 (9 Jan 2013 13:48:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 13:48:35 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-2539-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Wed Jan 09 14:48:53 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by plane.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Tsw1S-0002HY-5B for gllmg-musl@plane.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 14:48:50 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 22214 invoked by uid 550); 9 Jan 2013 13:48:34 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 22204 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2013 13:48:34 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110221 SUSE/3.1.8 Mail/1.0 In-Reply-To: <20130109130927.GA2947@openwall.com> Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:2538 Archived-At: On 01/09/2013 02:09 PM, croco@openwall.com wrote: > Hi folks, > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 12:02:29PM +0100, John Spencer wrote: > >> so for me, there are 3 options how to deal with issue in the future: >> 2) change musl so it is compatible with those apps. this would mean: > >> this change is the easiest solution: any problem will be magically fixed. > [...] > However, sometimes the practice forces us to do wrong things just because > we have no time or resources to do what is the right, and it looks like > this is exactly the case. So perhaps the "option 2" will finally be > choosen, despite we don't like it. However, I'd suggest at least to let > the people know this is a WORKAROUND for the bugs THEY introduce: make this > hack disabled by default, enabled by a compile-time option, and issue a > warning which points them to this discussion or something similar. as of now, musl only supports a single configuration. having 2 different versions of musl in the wild, one that works with their apps and another one that does not, is definitely not desirable > Something like "Okay, if your program doesn't work without this workaround, > then you can use the workaround, but you'd better fix your program". This > will not do much influence while musl is not so popular, but I hope it will > become popular one day (I really do... let's give the damn world a chance), > and then the people will have something to think about. here we have the typical chicken-and-egg problem: as long as applications compiled with musl just crash, while they work perfectly well with glibc, i think most contributors will become discouraged soon and continue using what they're familiar with.