From: Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org>
To: musl@lists.openwall.com
Subject: Re: Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries?
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 00:42:01 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <5175BCB9.5090309@gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130422215248.GR20323@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
On 04/22/2013 11:52 PM, Rich Felker wrote:
>> For this there aren't solution that won't cause different problems I'm
>> afraid.
>
> Sure there are. I get the impression you can tell I was talking about
> libav/ffmpeg's log interface. :-) The obvious solution is to bind log
> contexts to the object you're acting on. See this nice talk:
>
> http://misko.hevery.com/2008/11/21/clean-code-talks-global-state-and-singletons/
>
> If I remember right, part of the problem way back was that there were
> deep function calls that had no context available to them, and that
> didn't _need_ a context for anything but logging warnings or whatnot.
In the specific case yes. I tried to foster proper return error
propagation, so you get something more meaningful than EINVAL/-1 and
that is usually enough in those specific cases.
The general problem is that the library user wants to be the only one
having a say on what goes where so single point overrides are useful.
When you start using those libraries in situations in which you'd like
to have per-$situation logging then you start to scream.
(In the specific case above there is a quite borderline solution since
we can override the global logger and store per context loggers in
creative ways)
> Really, the fact that they can fail and want to be able to report
> failure means they _do_ need a context, but I can understand the
> desire to cheat, especially if there's a performance cost to passing
> the context all the way down. In that case, hidden non-global state,
> namely thread-local storage, might be an appropriate solution. It's
> still hidden state (and thus A Bad Thing), but at least it's no longer
> global state.
Exactly. (bonus points if you do that in a void returning function...)
>>> - Designs based on shared libraries, especially lots of them. This
>>> creates bloat and often interferes with the ability to use static
>>> linking.
>>
>> Special mention to those that want to do clever stuff on the init
>> section (e.g. change a program global state from there)
>
> Did whatever lib did that (OpenAL, was it?) ever fix their bugs?
Given recent binutils would strip away symbols if used that way, making
linking fail, I hope so.
> Yes, basically. Dependency on glib means your library will impose
> bloat and it will preclude robustness.
Yet glib gives you oh-so-many-features (I fell for it once), sadly there
aren't many utility libs that provide sort of useful data structures,
eventloops, threadpools and portable string mangling (e.g. strl*
functions) in a single widespread package.
Some lean/cleaned up alternative are cropping but usually they aren't as
known and widespread.
lu
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-04-22 22:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-04-21 16:30 LM
2013-04-21 20:17 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-21 20:24 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-24 11:39 ` LM
2013-04-25 19:30 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-21 23:26 ` Isaac Dunham
2013-04-22 14:53 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-22 15:21 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-22 16:40 ` LM
2013-04-22 16:47 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-22 22:07 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 12:50 ` LM
2013-04-23 14:40 ` John Spencer
2013-04-23 14:58 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-22 19:31 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-22 23:24 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-22 23:31 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 0:54 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-23 1:46 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 5:04 ` Isaac Dunham
2013-04-23 13:47 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 21:25 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-23 21:50 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-24 2:37 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 4:43 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-24 13:37 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 0:50 ` idunham
2013-04-24 6:11 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-22 21:52 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-22 22:42 ` Luca Barbato [this message]
2013-04-22 23:06 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-23 0:26 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-23 2:14 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-23 19:07 ` Strake
2013-04-23 19:24 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-23 21:33 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-24 12:12 ` Zvi Gilboa
2013-04-23 21:34 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-24 11:18 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-24 11:48 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-24 12:32 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-24 13:38 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 13:55 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-24 13:37 ` go support (was: Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries?) John Spencer
2013-04-24 13:39 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 16:33 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-24 15:47 ` Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries? Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-24 19:17 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-25 6:40 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-25 19:37 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-24 13:28 ` go support (was: Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries?) John Spencer
2013-04-24 13:42 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-24 14:06 ` Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries? Christian Neukirchen
2013-04-29 11:41 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-29 16:31 ` Go (was: [musl] Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries?) John Spencer
2013-04-29 16:44 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-23 0:31 ` Best place to discuss other lightweight libraries? Rob Landley
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=5175BCB9.5090309@gentoo.org \
--to=lu_zero@gentoo.org \
--cc=musl@lists.openwall.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.vuxu.org/mirror/musl/
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).