From: Zvi Gilboa <zg7s@eservices.virginia.edu>
To: <musl@lists.openwall.com>
Subject: Re: High-priority library replacements?
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 09:05:08 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <517BCD04.4070209@eservices.virginia.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1367041512.18069.170@driftwood>
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On 04/27/2013 01:45 AM, Rob Landley wrote:
> On 04/25/2013 12:53:53 PM, Zvi Gilboa wrote:
>> Ironically, much of the current thread is about the need to create
>> alternatives to commonly-used GPL'ed libraries, which in itself reminds
>> of past (and present) efforts to create open source alternatives to
>> proprietary libraries and software products.
>
> Unfortunately the FSF poisoned copyleft in 2006. The GPL was a
> category killer synonymous with copyleft... until GPLv3 came out and
> there was no longer any such thing as "The GPL".
>
> Today Linux and Samba can't share code even though they implement two
> ends of the same protocol. QEMU is caught between wanting Linux driver
> code to implement devices and gdb/binutils code to implement
> processors and it can't have both. Licensing code "GPLv2 or later"
> just makes it worse: you can donate code to both but can't accept code
> from either one.
>
> Programmers are not lawyers, we're not _good_ at how licenses
> interact. The GPL was a terminal node in a directed graph of license
> convertibily, where all a programmer had to care was "is this
> convertible to The GPL or not"? If it is, treat it as GPL, if not
> avoid it. There was no interaction, there was just The GPL. The FSF
> destroyed that, leaving a fragmented incompatible pool, and people's
> attempts to _fix_ it with Affero GPL or GPL-Next or other viral
> licenses just fragments it further.
>
> Copyleft only worked with a category killer license creating one big
> pool. With multiple incompatible copyleft licenses, copyleft
> _prevents_ code sharing because you can't re-use it or combine it in
> new projects.
... which apparently is the source of widespread confusion. To
illustrate this, go to google.com (with auto-complete enabled), and type
/including bsd/...
> In the absence of a universal receiver license, non-lawyer programmers
> looking for someting simple and understandable are switching to
> universal donor licenses. BSD/MIT or outright public domain.
Another balanced license is the LaTeX Project Public License (LPPL),
which also effectively governs cases in which a copyright holder has
abandoned his/her project, or can no longer be reached.
>
> This shows the GPL falling from 72% market share in 2009 to 58 in 2013:
>
> https://lwn.net/Articles/547400/
>
> Eben Moglen, author of GPLv2 and GPLv3 (Stallman is not a lawyer,
> Moglen is) recently lamented the decline of copyleft but doesn't seem
> to understand why:
>
> https://lwn.net/Articles/547379/
>
> As far as I can tell the FSF has alienated all the young programmers.
> The most popular license on Github is not specifying a license at all,
> taking the Napster approach of civil disobedience and waiting for the
> intellectual property system to collapse. Ten years ago the GPL would
> have appealed to them, but since GPLv3 shattered the ecosystem it does
> not.
>
> That's why Android's "no GPL in userspace" policy (if you add GPL code
> to your userspace, you can't use the Android trademark advertising
> your product) actually makes _sense_.
>
>> Zvi
>
> Rob
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-04-27 13:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-04-25 4:15 Rich Felker
2013-04-25 5:05 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-25 5:21 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-25 5:55 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-25 7:34 ` Jens Staal
2013-04-25 12:18 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-25 13:54 ` Kurt H Maier
2013-04-25 6:43 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-04-26 0:55 ` idunham
2013-04-26 1:11 ` crypto libraries idunham
2013-04-26 7:51 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-04-26 1:51 ` High-priority library replacements? Rich Felker
2013-04-26 8:11 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-04-26 15:47 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-26 17:24 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-04-28 21:43 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-29 10:16 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-29 12:09 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-29 17:35 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-04-29 21:55 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-30 2:10 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-30 6:32 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-04-30 8:35 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-30 9:58 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-04-30 11:30 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2013-04-30 14:11 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-05-01 7:26 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-05-08 21:37 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-05-08 23:00 ` idunham
2013-05-09 7:36 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-05-09 9:03 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-05-09 11:10 ` LM
2013-05-09 14:08 ` Rich Felker
2013-05-09 14:40 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-05-09 14:45 ` Rich Felker
2013-05-12 22:42 ` Brad Conroy
2013-05-15 20:17 ` Rich Felker
2013-05-16 16:12 ` Justin Cormack
2013-05-17 1:56 ` Rich Felker
2013-05-17 7:28 ` Justin Cormack
2013-05-09 16:40 ` LM
2013-04-30 18:47 ` Nicolas Braud-Santoni
2013-04-30 19:18 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-05-26 20:09 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-05-27 15:53 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-05-28 9:27 ` Daniel Cegiełka
2013-05-28 17:30 ` Gregor Pintar
2013-05-28 13:11 ` LM
2013-05-28 21:38 ` Rob Landley
2013-05-31 11:13 ` LM
2013-05-31 11:36 ` LM
2013-04-25 7:21 ` Hal Clark
2013-04-25 10:58 ` Igmar Palsenberg
2013-04-25 12:28 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-25 11:44 ` LM
2013-04-25 12:51 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-25 15:30 ` Jens Staal
2013-04-25 16:51 ` Zvi Gilboa
2013-04-25 16:57 ` Justin Cormack
2013-04-25 17:53 ` Zvi Gilboa
2013-04-27 5:45 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-27 8:13 ` Luca Barbato
2013-04-27 13:05 ` Zvi Gilboa [this message]
2013-04-26 6:11 ` Igmar Palsenberg
2013-04-28 21:34 ` Licensing Rob Landley
2013-04-29 20:47 ` Licensing Rich Felker
2013-04-29 21:10 ` Licensing Jens Gustedt
2013-04-29 22:47 ` Licensing Kurt H Maier
2013-04-29 22:50 ` Licensing Rob Landley
2013-04-30 12:32 ` Licensing LM
2013-04-26 4:19 ` High-priority library replacements? Isaac Dunham
2013-04-26 11:41 ` LM
2013-04-26 12:57 ` Muhammad Sumyandityo Noor
2013-04-26 15:53 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-28 6:53 ` Muhammad Sumyandityo Noor
2013-04-28 17:46 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-26 16:52 ` LM
2013-04-26 4:32 ` nwmcsween
2013-04-29 5:51 Brad Conroy
2013-04-29 16:38 ` John Spencer
2013-04-29 20:14 ` Rob Landley
2013-04-29 20:53 ` Rich Felker
2013-04-30 1:53 ` idunham
2013-04-30 2:21 ` Rich Felker
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