From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_HIGH,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25164 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2023 15:59:11 -0000 Received: from second.openwall.net (193.110.157.125) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Jul 2023 15:59:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 20477 invoked by uid 550); 7 Jul 2023 15:59:08 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 20445 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2023 15:59:07 -0000 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 5RJjERZ8ha3keE7Vr4yvimXqdjGd4X0l X-Proofpoint-GUID: 5RJjERZ8ha3keE7Vr4yvimXqdjGd4X0l X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.591,18.0.957 definitions=2023-07-07_10:2023-07-06,2023-07-07 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=interactive_user_notspam policy=interactive_user score=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=636 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2305260000 definitions=main-2307070147 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=content-type : mime-version : subject : from : in-reply-to : date : cc : content-transfer-encoding : message-id : references : to; s=20180706; bh=LDaExlPWQmWEg8naWpO/wmbcm3XUrWyGqHO2TOZU0mI=; b=YIXARzuLJQwXFdi05tFak3xRPryYGKjgioGt0aqfpHlUnQ63jQl7ZZW7SXwe3WbQvoCF sstUIxKvOKBThOhp4wEdvLDpFxumCFUNwGWtWG1vPTstBVrgIoz4bBHurJxJCLQImLs7 t7ifoH7oHJeVNTy/avG7JFnZ44ZJGl3Q83jQ9aGQKhF5/UGIa1uqmRGT6Rt60gXVYPri /IlZy6Tsqz4gjqbVvV3Wmh5E5G4GDYvIZS9bKB1CVbZBBex/EDyCYiTo8CP/d+034U8E 67sTo9xmza1JvR2Eujrd3+Hc1B7qCtWGl4g+lPd6zwFsSOGaXLlbOr76n79xzpAj3/PB iw== X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: ee50c839d80393d0679506f9ba71f6b0 X-Va-E-CD: 56ab0e176e6e23b7c0c7f8bb71e3663a X-Va-R-CD: d86870e6d2b7150a65f5397c4f4f694c X-Va-ID: 7ec9809f-ab85-4233-b051-225e36e5632a X-Va-CD: 0 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: ee50c839d80393d0679506f9ba71f6b0 X-V-E-CD: 56ab0e176e6e23b7c0c7f8bb71e3663a X-V-R-CD: d86870e6d2b7150a65f5397c4f4f694c X-V-ID: 0be2618c-a92b-4d3b-bac8-10f54599e335 X-V-CD: 0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.591,18.0.957 definitions=2023-07-07_10:2023-07-06,2023-07-07 signatures=0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3767.100.2\)) From: Alastair Houghton In-reply-to: <20230707154555.GG4163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 16:58:45 +0100 Cc: musl@lists.openwall.com Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: <54F3EF51-5DB9-44F8-971D-F14C998CEF6B@apple.com> References: <309EDCC9-2402-46B5-BDBD-B96677E470DD@apple.com> <20230707124722.GE4163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <054B1907-817E-496D-9F83-7FBE7AB0111A@apple.com> <829DB43D-E38A-4949-A0BE-B487279E4FC4@apple.com> <20230707154555.GG4163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> To: Rich Felker X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3767.100.2) Subject: Re: [musl] __MUSL__ macro On 7 Jul 2023, at 16:45, Rich Felker wrote: >=20 > If we make a macro that says "you can now rely on implementation > details of musl version x.y.z" and people do that, then it ceases to > work in a future version, it's our fault, and people rightly blame us. I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s true at all - people tend to blame = whoever is in front of them, which is probably not going to be musl but = something higher up the stack. In many cases projects can detect the = musl version already, either at configuration time by examining the = version string, or by specifying it as part of their build. Both of = those things would have *exactly* that same downside, and the only way = to remove that would be to do away with a version number altogether... = which nobody is seriously proposing, right? The *only* thing you=E2=80=99re actually preventing here is detecting = the musl version *in the preprocessor*. And only in situations where = the project itself can=E2=80=99t somehow supply a relevant macro = definition. Kind regards, Alastair.