From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3123 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2023 16:01:27 -0000 Received: from second.openwall.net (193.110.157.125) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 17 Jul 2023 16:01:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 9623 invoked by uid 550); 17 Jul 2023 16:01:24 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 9585 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2023 16:01:23 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1689609671; x=1692201671; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=bf9Ra8iZXtK4SLJKJlmhG7gzqJs+4P0FN4AYxzTvvxM=; b=JRL6NOm/Q1Ul2oOiul/y+zg6n39P3SyQqu3JycPGPquqqp0afL9L1ugUIb8z+rCk7t aCQeMKdAD/X2rQkCNv5qhncsm6UuhkQOPVJOzC8LI8yaj0rr9IfwqLzAs7XnhP/mLqHo C70NIE7I3UOQmXbUggS3yp3Jq3usRUL7YnKkKM75mI4jjygFJpynNAjxPjCLzRd1pz4j bqZ4Inns7f7uwL8HgItPQzCW1Wbz6+E/4gFyrFi2Cy5HHJ/NjZy5em8pc08CBbvRq+W4 QGcadNJel9gldEpjzsOyqJ/BIVa3bAmFaYddQ+v7cXAzjPC/HUB4E4lCiyNtBT1DCEBu klSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1689609671; x=1692201671; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bf9Ra8iZXtK4SLJKJlmhG7gzqJs+4P0FN4AYxzTvvxM=; b=cJPTu1W8EcBrpmYmULTl/QxEIdNDJxwKygzEooOXvZbj3sJa0EwTME1QcMRp7e78uJ dVqMSFPEIu09yLC0iKrujAoGE7CWXyCpzsXQFHKzqtdmANXbpIa9pJluKxcgoZg6527b 7crbCOpW9+8rWsZK58f7sUBFaBfFV+23M6faNHhXiZa0i6P/7oV9wVwYCOscdiEzVPmQ d3js99ua1N6c7SnjaXbudzAkd5YpKFtchlujsYmKIMqWB5WQFkQKfD+wHS90MiN0p98U XdPd28FqHkUIZoCZHuxi9VVhC9kIZ19JvkV9R0v9e81hzmbHkRUADrJV5UEJbU9K3Gd6 dBUA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLaCD1n84ill+rxuoSZApTYdZchAPR5OCy+rvG8k7czMQCsFP+6h aPAg2rjnRNy51927qqxEaBvk28a6qz2D6qKk0VFjIt3tgVs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlEaTGBCp58tu1ngS5W7vfoy9ZTt7rCgiFXIuoaxUnB3cQ0JL7+eD023KzxLLqyD7j2bf5bGkvGIY2AlrjKDUOY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:702b:b0:1ba:4815:ee64 with SMTP id u43-20020a056870702b00b001ba4815ee64mr8743580oae.1.1689609671248; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 09:01:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230717011758.55d20eae6e60835c5c7fe954@killthe.net> <20230717152103.GK4163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> In-Reply-To: <20230717152103.GK4163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> From: Jeffrey Walton Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2023 12:01:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: musl@lists.openwall.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [musl] musl -- FFS get your shit together, please On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 11:21=E2=80=AFAM Rich Felker wrot= e: > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 01:17:58AM -0500, Dave Blanchard wrote: > > There's a lot to like about musl, but damn, there's some absolutely rid= iculous aspects also: > > > > 1) How in the hell are you going to make a MAJOR change like > > changing #ifdefs from defined(_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE) || > > defined(_GNU_SOURCE) to just defined(_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE) in a PATCH > > level increment, from 1.2.3 to 1.2.4? What the hell is wrong with > > you? You just broke my entire build! Yet another patch had to be > > created on my end to UNDO this crazy change; the only alternative > > was patching half the packages on my system to fix their now-broken > > build! Do you know NOTHING about proper versioning??? > > Our versioning system works like this: in x.y.z, > > - increment of x, likely to never happen, would indicate a completely > different ABI > > - increment of y indicates a change whereby programs compiled for the > new y, even without use of any new features added in new y, may not > run with an older y. canonical example: time64. > > - increment of z indicates a change whereby programs built for the new > z should still run on older z (modulo any bugs that might be present > in the older version) as long as they're not using new interfaces > introduced in the new z. > > All of these conditions are assuming the program used the public > interfaces and did not poke at unspecified internals, etc.; if it did, > all bets are off and any version change may be fully-breaking to the > program. > > Note that all of these deal with ABI compatibility, not compile-time > compatibility. To play devil's advocate... If a symbol in Musl disappears, then shouldn't that be considered an ABI break? And then, shouldn't it require a major or 'x' bump? It seems like Musl signed that contract when it first published a symbol under _LARGEFILE64_SOURCE or _GNU_SOURCE. When the symbol disappeared using one or the other define, then the contract was broken. Jeff