From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/7034 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Justin Cormack Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: What would make musl 1.2? Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:23:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150213074603.GA975@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20150214000655.GB1452@newbook> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1423909462 27709 80.91.229.3 (14 Feb 2015 10:24:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:24:22 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-7047-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Sat Feb 14 11:24:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by plane.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YMZtV-0002BJ-Tt for gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 11:24:14 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 19547 invoked by uid 550); 14 Feb 2015 10:24:10 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 19497 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2015 10:24:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=specialbusservice.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=P6vmPNPb4Ht8H/ZRAL7q2cBbQ3hUnWLLx+WJc9Wb+vg=; b=KUsUyv5f+mcCp/ar2Tqqn1GvCmKdRZOjU8zpPbQikt4ssQlIDEjjmwDU4qgUPTlJsN tTNHQ9v3lpNSfSvbosELSeVtTHba3oQzQQHXs4ZfQYBByVisNA+zNMFhhdacCAoHWs80 2g2tssamFfjlNkYYH9QMMVr+A5oq1lAdts238= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=P6vmPNPb4Ht8H/ZRAL7q2cBbQ3hUnWLLx+WJc9Wb+vg=; b=P7/h4Yp+1rwxyjL4/uIdO5xgsqvx/R8eJzDmEqLQLzi0tW9g+MipTTKqFuwMhpUt5d LDyet9O/Mzk8GO2KLJ9puoS+OV1YD9mbeYszGjUbDlz4ZdFZBXzFfNckd4uBjONXFtZs eRu+XkO7sWD2HtlKXr7fYazgGNQt86VzzE6rL3DSxKZEm0yxEL2u30iTz5kiTG8bbpHd Ev96ZCazDwpih+IOElxjuAR8lSPNH3CNEIXx3D5GsIb484i1WiEpa7KZSPzxvVJWWlE3 pI4EPbkBIToNEBvxohQxyWvQa4dWo5vXGY7V/6VqNncRiFzHJmZROCHZmy16KwXRxjlw tuTg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQntbIoP8h1yytUa1XxqH+Lvi+seeDKpumoX2AMGXqeTuipIxXCS5RvenSF4zWlTmXBuuzNb X-Received: by 10.112.54.167 with SMTP id k7mr12008766lbp.72.1423909433996; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 02:23:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20150214000655.GB1452@newbook> Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:7034 Archived-At: On 14 February 2015 at 00:06, Isaac Dunham wrote: > On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 11:09:55AM +0000, Justin Cormack wrote: >> mips n32 - this seems to have mostly bypassed linux and android alas, >> with only gentoo supporting it, despite the o32 ABI being horrible. >> But Musl users should be encouraged to use n32 if building form >> scratch... > > I've looked repeatedly, but everything I found has seemed to imply > that n32 is like x32: a "32-bit" ABI that requires 64-bit hardware. > Is this incorrect? That is correct but as mips has been 64 bit since the 1990s a lot of low end hardware has actually been 64 bit even in configurations that are fairly low end. Also there are some floating point limitations in o32. I guess as hardware specs rise that n64 support is probably more useful than n32 for musl. There is a rant about how terrible they all are here http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/WhatsWrongWithO32N32N64 suggesting replacing the whole lot... the all code is PIC thing is certainly very odd. Have found toolchain quality low too, but now at least Imagination has people working on llvm and gcc etc. >> mips n64 - there is a bit of cheap hardware around (Cavium stuff), but >> fairly niche at present, although recent Android supports it and >> Imagination seems to be promoting it more. Maybe they could be >> persuaded to sponsor mips ports? > > They came out with a new MIPS64 processor design recently (no hardware > is available yet), and the latest version of Android features MIPS64 > support. IIRC, Alexandru Voica commented that it usually takes a little > under 2 years from design release to hardware on the market. > > I'd like to use musl on mips64, though I'm just a hobbyist and I've > not yet found the cheap hardware to which you refer. The cheap hardware easily available is: Edgerouter lite http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-lite/ (note the full ethernet performance requires binary blobs, and the USB is fussy about what storage it will accept, so it is a bit annoying). they make higher end hardware too. All the Chinese mips chips (Loongson) are 64 bit. I dont recommend the old 2F models (really odd instruction set) but the Loongson 3 ones sound better. Apparently you can get them as systems/boards from China for not too much and the newer ones are decent specs. I havent yet tried this yet but may do. See the loongson-dev list for details eg https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/loongson-dev/loongson-3a$20mainboard/loongson-dev/twzd5TBz_1k/fZnJs5Xf_6QJ I am hoping that now Imagination have realised that devs need hardware there will be a 64 bit dev board in the next year or so, especially as there was huge demand for the 32 bit one http://blog.imgtec.com/powervr/mips-creator-ci20-development-board-now-available - mine just arrived a couple of days ago. Justin