From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.lib.musl.general/7211 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Justin Cormack Newsgroups: gmane.linux.lib.musl.general Subject: Re: libintl: stubs or working functions? Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 08:29:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150309005636.GY23507@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20150315193339.3b36e135@r2lynx> <20150315235418.GU23507@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20150316111846.5ce6a90e@r2lynx> <20150316134156.GZ16260@port70.net> <20150317084004.5cbbd4ae@r2lynx> <20150317020119.GX23507@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20150317135916.3af647ab@r2lynx> <20150317150234.GA16260@port70.net> <20150317153857.GZ23507@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20150318141020.GH23636@example.net> Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a81086042d50511a000ea X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1426753803 4734 80.91.229.3 (19 Mar 2015 08:30:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 08:30:03 +0000 (UTC) To: musl@lists.openwall.com Original-X-From: musl-return-7224-gllmg-musl=m.gmane.org@lists.openwall.com Thu Mar 19 09:29:58 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mother.openwall.net ([195.42.179.200]) by plane.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YYVq1-0007rJ-9n for gllmg-musl@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:29:57 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 30258 invoked by uid 550); 19 Mar 2015 08:29:54 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 30233 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2015 08:29:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=specialbusservice.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=CuXYlc5QKyGaDpiTK/VU+3Si1VdfRbEdIe8MCXoX3XQ=; b=KrLBd7PkSpAzTDI5KNmehT2PqqiHSjRbnlLA5D1hdgmBzkQBM3E2aVaMdDscA1Oy7p 5tIWyaPSROdxq/dOUfesXoKUH5hB8KyHmyCR2EsZLxRxrMhVCyhgASkM6gjr5luFjysu OkdMT4ZVbOMoL6T6JDaHmVxfZwwcBuVKzpE24= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=CuXYlc5QKyGaDpiTK/VU+3Si1VdfRbEdIe8MCXoX3XQ=; b=CQPciQxI4s/Hq+iOIWY9LfgGBKjC0R0ENEDcWL7/IHLqkbXhKeitB+XMmcuW/q0/ps FNjYHJpcsnuUDu3sc+MKj1Au0d9bux9H0rqvRwcGVyU6UxTpHjT+5A2F56eyvrq+5axt NyYHgTwOgzBcunvgC1eJYsnx5aexrvMjoZfaAiI8f4crgS3qKPrd4XS4C/v6YPegZOl6 RnXVM3NUW2+LeNVpKU3N0s2SO6BVC5kZWjp2OycjleL910tgaHK5cpm8PRw9I6epeobJ kxDj9NmRTdN5EwY0JFBbh4vWXVBL41aev3aoMxJrpDGqV7Vhx51n2DfDJrpqyMLVljCX qG8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnsWYHrKJxOVk447E9IQmQ2KXrfUqD4zh4S6F9dJkPOJKDYM8i0xx1QiGp0dC4pw2m9QaUk X-Received: by 10.112.150.131 with SMTP id ui3mr68324680lbb.62.1426753782293; Thu, 19 Mar 2015 01:29:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20150318141020.GH23636@example.net> Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.linux.lib.musl.general:7211 Archived-At: --047d7b3a81086042d50511a000ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mar 18, 2015 11:10 PM, wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 11:38:57AM -0400, Rich Felker wrote: > > > msgid "Permission denied" > > > msgstr "asdf@# lkjk^& (EPERM)" > > > > I'm a bit undecided on this. It's reasonable to ask people reporting > > bugs to set their locale temporarily to something the project > > maintainers understand (typically English). It's also pretty easy to > > grep the .po files or use Google Translate to figure out what the > > message says. > > > > If users with a non-English locale would find those kind of messages > > helpful and non-obtrusive (is latin text in the middle of non-latin > > obtrusive? perhaps, depending on font?), I'm not opposed to having > > them, but I don't think they should be added against the desire of > > most users out of an interest in making it easier to interpret bug > > reports for us or for other upstreams. > > As an application user I am motivated to be able to report problems as > exactly as possible. > > As a "library user" (either as a packager, application developer, > support staff or something else) I find it unfortunate/disturbing to > have to "guess" the actual error name, even when a message is in a well > known language like English. > > This is mostly very easy but sometimes less certain, with less usual > errors and/or different C libraries which may contain different English > strings/spellings too. > > An error-specific indentifier should IMHO always be present > in every message, not translated to a "natural" language with the > intention to be translatable back with more or less pain. > > IOW I'd like to always have the canonical errname in the output, > in English too. > > This would make error messages easier and more robust to interpret. > Would it make sense for the canonical names to be the output in the C locale and English if you set an English locale? Justin --047d7b3a81086042d50511a000ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8


On Mar 18, 2015 11:10 PM, <u-wsnj@aetey.se> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 11:38:57AM -0400, Rich Felker wrote:
> > > msgid "Permission denied"
> > > msgstr "asdf@# lkjk^& (EPERM)"
> >
> > I'm a bit undecided on this. It's reasonable to ask people reporting
> > bugs to set their locale temporarily to something the project
> > maintainers understand (typically English). It's also pretty easy to
> > grep the .po files or use Google Translate to figure out what the
> > message says.
> >
> > If users with a non-English locale would find those kind of messages
> > helpful and non-obtrusive (is latin text in the middle of non-latin
> > obtrusive? perhaps, depending on font?), I'm not opposed to having
> > them, but I don't think they should be added against the desire of
> > most users out of an interest in making it easier to interpret bug
> > reports for us or for other upstreams.
>
> As an application user I am motivated to be able to report problems as
> exactly as possible.
>
> As a "library user" (either as a packager, application developer,
> support staff or something else) I find it unfortunate/disturbing to
> have to "guess" the actual error name, even when a message is in a well
> known language like English.
>
> This is mostly very easy but sometimes less certain, with less usual
> errors and/or different C libraries which may contain different English
> strings/spellings too.
>
> An error-specific indentifier should IMHO always be present
> in every message, not translated to a "natural" language with the
> intention to be translatable back with more or less pain.
>
> IOW I'd like to always have the canonical errname in the output,
> in English too.
>
> This would make error messages easier and more robust to interpret.
>

Would it make sense for the canonical names to be the output in the C locale and English if you set an English locale?

Justin

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