From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23948 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2023 15:20:12 -0000 Received: from second.openwall.net (193.110.157.125) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Jul 2023 15:20:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 29921 invoked by uid 550); 7 Jul 2023 15:20:09 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 29886 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2023 15:20:09 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=s31663417; t=1688743197; x=1689347997; i=nullplan@gmx.net; bh=mSjx9nMv+ExiPDjj8yAoBS6miINQgggqZmsvpO0CxVc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=TXWtRlJakJvBFUmmFdoVHhvUe47+O2cRGB05pSjRIhOx5oCpT3s9gHPNfK0LD+2fzG5mEwj GkbhEieoI0hsF2nY7un5LcFiS2jnZ418/jepovl2Ur8YiAAWQNYw5Eh1qhB5XtBfLi2Ql2h7P nT0Om2xbPsTRIrnh7+LxMYk7qhbG6cVQ6IxAfZ2DCPO95ZHInSn+0SfwE6XgvEt/AJfij1QVB icOHQCVkUT3VMeu6DrvjWdZmOrRDy3TvvMdd693WCPk5vxD/5vqhegEnHJZf+uPKSrDKOnkpI WMt0gTbJVjn4XAcyA71ceQKMxuW1zQsgPBrcMgs+ZjWQGioREX3g== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2023 17:19:56 +0200 From: Markus Wichmann To: musl@lists.openwall.com Message-ID: References: <309EDCC9-2402-46B5-BDBD-B96677E470DD@apple.com> <20230707124722.GE4163@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <054B1907-817E-496D-9F83-7FBE7AB0111A@apple.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kiK4u4KF8RWlU7BIQfcd+DSzKQU9LTdDux5Ze1ZLpgHQLjEBrpv gwCclce6oQrQSLEFY74XGz7LeIB8qhB+6TEn/oWDgD2G1K6T5cogIxQv0qH/W2CpTxGL0If spWokQNVWC6evREa3/zXS+Jg8EwNtYbPqi4CRf+ERvpif7wwMPhfd1v3BFM2o97vmSq+bWb aHaeXVmRMbMhMotLO8bxw== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:VAf8eqb/kks=;PE7bt4MmO6Z1dZkudG6cFHR1xAT WXF4CMizbY7GGdLRsSqGkGkgjYXdZHuCyMDvG6DSKS291zVi2P8aa37rmcavrna6UVdHUDJYQ t7kH4Q9Kt+2e8H1nq6G4RPsCR8E1cbnOcmNbXRBs+0qy4/Kxd7ELFxIQi0Zao+GIqPh1KWglu 34OuBsce/q4lRiV8kGNQpLs4gG6pjDqikqqx41KdLvXG16sv9lPThLe/7dKhD6OXw+czE2vWj K3hkhHHY0bPXdZIYgi+rh1OuyYNI25qNVo1Y4oolD+EvFeD4kHR1wOa9CXr8T7XgNRqwi2jvv TRgadxIqPhBcAz//+B/Msa7ji3fJCBU1f7EInq0hGM+lVV0R83IZ32Plw8vIPzG8VmhAfcw/V pvfSRHlPnVFa9+yIxxBcuS1jQPYBfCjExKGfx5sQaTPL3iJWbR0Czazqa8zF/rhG6wgp7ZKQ2 NK49CqqvwPyTftYaOEviJvx46dNtL7aNvca9YUeg5gyaB8oFUObky8OmcnpFSstPsgHROKe9l PTnLJZAqrIQgFPRErQRGfQOADrk8oblZFlmm4tGNv8euF8CH/BnSUaLLlDDoWHSIVZXWSUQJL 7vxqCg2gwrJ3o4Q/dwa45xUbRPyk4F3R8LvIaB89oi7w6yhkgcu4f+YgJpikfwsbxPJ6Dpfda tZV+73tmHRwpISRexV3hy87s5qNNABcBnCRzDDlwwmtyADgea3XRU3PzCV02OEBq2el2E5CIY 4WHgBKPZ2ZcLySGBfUmLy/1NXZ6xHUsfE77m/cytuBozX63VerT1W/wqD/Hka858oUm4RdXeT r+/i0C3KfdvQoKDlWDuNusy/7q2T4jyB7J0rOtybGlaKxRlqVRWHUVRdcC5K42VWMk6EC7al9 0b3Yfw/V+sBglwCn5g/N70zsr+zbfUhWX3gaLxbLv0jdq24Z10/4cfa0QiAgNRjROxl8RUOEj YjojPuOA6RohhFJhWWcyS0RKzIc= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [musl] __MUSL__ macro Am Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 11:02:21AM -0400 schrieb Andrew Bell: > I guess I don't understand the opposition -- is there any downside to mu= sl > to having the macros defined, necessary or not? (I'm saying this as a > minimalist, so I'm surprising myself here.) > Yes, it makes people write worse code. Not making the macros available makes people write more portable code, which is a good thing. Sometimes people have to be made to think for a moment, and broken out of their rut, to get them to do the right thing. There is also the issue of what exactly the macros mean. Between distribution patches and backports, a version number does not necessarily map to a feature or bug set. And musl does not want to have any quirks, it wants to just be a POSIX implementation. So what specialties are supposed to be kept in mind when the musl macro is defined? Keep in mind that __GNUC__ also does not just mean gcc anymore. These things keep going off the rails all the time. Ciao, Markus