From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HK_RANDOM_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13247 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2023 23:15:37 -0000 Received: from second.openwall.net (193.110.157.125) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Nov 2023 23:15:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 15849 invoked by uid 550); 28 Nov 2023 23:15:32 -0000 Mailing-List: contact musl-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Reply-To: musl@lists.openwall.com Received: (qmail 15803 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2023 23:15:31 -0000 Message-ID: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=postmarketos.org; s=donut; t=1701213318; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=pdzHk+x4ctt3Zp9eZsbj7R3lKLmOFCDR8phpe4hNLrA=; b=UqReiFKXtDFE18Jat3+URQHm5ifhU6/x0wqWmA3TMPsYwCMb4lp/OfsXZdAtkIp71Yyk0k YoP+PivNp7f1pG6UQvO8P8FoCtKx1NXo/fnWyz3/L8yUGr1OT2/OkIFzSSJvTBbwCE8XFD SltwDY5Ix5b62H/zCKJ+yaYG4ke20Ok= From: Pablo Correa Gomez To: Alastair Houghton Cc: musl@lists.openwall.com, Rich Felker Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 00:15:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <42ED63DC-BF8D-4962-98AC-FCE0FDD7475F@apple.com> References: <3DD8D02A-0802-494E-B9E8-F00B457B86F6@apple.com> <2d066e446ec5e7a7005e745de53b8ac4e539ecd2.camel@postmarketos.org> <42ED63DC-BF8D-4962-98AC-FCE0FDD7475F@apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [musl] setlocale() again On mar, 2023-11-28 at 16:27 +0000, Alastair Houghton wrote: > On 27 Oct 2023, at 21:15, Pablo Correa Gomez > wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > I'm Pablo, one of postmarketOS maintainers, and by chance bumped > > into > > this thread. I am super happy that you sent these messages, since I > > am > > in the process of adding support for musl into Glib test suite, and > > bumped into exactly the same problem as you did. >=20 > Hi Pablo. Sorry it=E2=80=99s taken me a while to get back to you. I=E2=80= =99ve been > somewhat busy with other things. Happy to hear back, time catches up on all of us. >=20 > > From the developer perspective, I really like your proposal. > > However, > > from the user and distro maintainer perspective, I am a bit more > > hesitant. As daily user of an alpine system localized in Spanish, I > > acknowledge and identify the problem that you present of "1,024" vs > > "1.024". However, I would argue that such thing is a small problem, > > compared to completely losing localization in Spanish. In practice, > > I > > would say both these examples are only theoric, since both Spanish > > and > > French are supported musl-locales.=20 >=20 > Indeed. I=E2=80=99d add to that though that with the present behaviour, > there=E2=80=99s very little incentive for people to add support for their > native language to Musl, since they can tolerate the unusual > behaviour wherein Musl pretends it has locale data for their language > (you yourself say =E2=80=9Csuch thing is a small problem=E2=80=9D, which = illustrates > the point, I think). Right, this is actually a great point for this change. >=20 > > So my real concern, is what could happen to all those users of > > languages not supported by musl locales and that currently (to some > > extent) have their systems localized? >=20 > The exact same thing that happens to people in a similar position on > Glibc systems, namely they don=E2=80=99t get their programs localized unt= il > they install locale data for the C library.=C2=A0 This is not especially > unreasonable behaviour, honestly.=C2=A0 I think the community of people > using Musl-based distributions is of above average competence and > many users will be entirely capable of submitting a patch to musl- > locales for their language if it isn=E2=80=99t supported (I=E2=80=99d say= the > situation on Glibc-based distributions is different; there are > definitely less technically able users running desktop Linux these > days). We at postmarketOS certainly have less technical users. We could solve it with an announcement though. So as long as we have some time to adapt, and this is not queued right before a release, I'm happy with it :) >=20 > Kind regards, >=20 > Alastair. >=20