experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Uwe Koloska]

Hello,

I have just tried to gain a deeper insight into document preparation with 
context because in january I want to make a journal with it.

So I work through the metafun manual (27.10.2000) and have some question 
for the FunnyFrames example (4.6 Enhancing the layout):

1. What is the reason, the framed text does not span the whole line?  In 
core-rul I found that the width is derived from textwidth advanced 
-2\@@localoffset.  But where is this offset defined?

2. The lower space between text and frame is greater than the upper one.  
(this is the case in the manual, too)  Should I use \startlinecorrection? 
And how?  (just inside StartFrame, I cannot see a difference)

3. There are some funny hyphenations inside the frame (but they are right!) 
like "knowl-edge" ...  Anyway before I know that this is right, I looked 
into the .log from making the format (to find out wether the right 
hyphenation patterns are there).  And I found a great load of

language       : patterns en for en loaded (n=3)
(/usr/local/teTeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/ushyph1.tex)
language       : no hyphenations en for en (n=3)
language       : patterns uk for uk loaded (n=4)
(/usr/local/teTeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/ukhyphen.tex)
language       : no hyphenations uk for uk (n=4)
language       : patterns de for de loaded (n=5)

are this real problems?

4. How comes I cannot copy the _formatted_ sources from the pdf? Neither 
interactive nor print version worked.  I know (but not for sure) I have 
copied code with linebreaks from another pdf but don't know what file this 
was.

I am using Acrobat 4.05 and XEmacs on Linux.  But it seems it has to do 
with XEmacs, since I can copy with linebreaks to this mail (kmail2) ...

Is there someone on this list who has prepared some journal (no formal / 
scientific one, so maybe I should say magazine) and can give me some hints? 
I need illutrating titles, pictures, columns and normally a page centric 
layout.  Yes I know this is a task for a DTP program, but since this 
magazine is my playground (the last two issues are produced with vivapress 
professional and pagemaker) I am curious to see how context takes the 
challenge ;-))

Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Berend de Boer]

Uwe Koloska wrote:

> 4. How comes I cannot copy the _formatted_ sources from the pdf? Neither 
> interactive nor print version worked.  I know (but not for sure) I have 
> copied code with linebreaks from another pdf but don't know what file this 
> was.

I can copy things just fine (to emacs 20.5 for example)

Groetjes,

Berend. (-:

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Hans Hagen]

At 03:02 AM 12/19/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I have just tried to gain a deeper insight into document preparation with 
>context because in january I want to make a journal with it.
>
>So I work through the metafun manual (27.10.2000) and have some question 
>for the FunnyFrames example (4.6 Enhancing the layout):
>
>1. What is the reason, the framed text does not span the whole line?  In 
>core-rul I found that the width is derived from textwidth advanced 
>-2\@@localoffset.  But where is this offset defined?

The width can be set with [width=] and by default is .75\hsize. 

That's the offset between the text and the frame, some 1em by default

>2. The lower space between text and frame is greater than the upper one.  
>(this is the case in the manual, too)  Should I use \startlinecorrection? 
>And how?  (just inside StartFrame, I cannot see a difference)

probably a forced depth so that side by side frames look ok, in this
particular case, there should be a it more space at the top, mabye
[top=\vskip\dp\strutbox] will help 

>3. There are some funny hyphenations inside the frame (but they are right!) 
>like "knowl-edge" ...  Anyway before I know that this is right, I looked 
>into the .log from making the format (to find out wether the right 
>hyphenation patterns are there).  And I found a great load of
>
>language       : patterns en for en loaded (n=3)
>(/usr/local/teTeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/ushyph1.tex)
>language       : no hyphenations en for en (n=3)
>language       : patterns uk for uk loaded (n=4)
>(/usr/local/teTeX/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/ukhyphen.tex)
>language       : no hyphenations uk for uk (n=4)
>language       : patterns de for de loaded (n=5)
>
>are this real problems?

Not at all. hyphenations are exceptions, and there seem to be none [at
least none defined in lang-??.hyp; the patterns are loaded all right. 

>4. How comes I cannot copy the _formatted_ sources from the pdf? Neither 
>interactive nor print version worked.  I know (but not for sure) I have 
>copied code with linebreaks from another pdf but don't know what file this 
>was.

you can try pdftotext 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[S2P development]

Berend de Boer wrote:
> 
> Uwe Koloska wrote:
> 
> > 4. How comes I cannot copy the _formatted_ sources from the pdf? Neither
> > interactive nor print version worked.  I know (but not for sure) I have
> > copied code with linebreaks from another pdf but don't know what file this
> > was.
> 
> I can copy things just fine (to emacs 20.5 for example)

XEmacs: you may need 'Paste' in the menu (yank doesn't work with X
selections)?

greetings, Taco

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Uwe Koloska]

You wrote on Dienstag, 19. Dezember 2000 13:26:
>Berend de Boer wrote:
>> Uwe Koloska wrote:
>> > 4. How comes I cannot copy the _formatted_ sources from the pdf?
>> > Neither interactive nor print version worked.  I know (but not for
>> > sure) I have copied code with linebreaks from another pdf but don't
>> > know what file this was.
>>
>> I can copy things just fine (to emacs 20.5 for example)
>
>XEmacs: you may need 'Paste' in the menu (yank doesn't work with X
>selections)?

Unfortunately, "Paste" is greyed out ...

And I don't think this really is the case, cause from say an xterm all 
linefeeds are present :-((

Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Uwe Koloska]

You wrote on Dienstag, 19. Dezember 2000 12:10:
>At 03:02 AM 12/19/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
>
>>1. What is the reason, the framed text does not span the whole line?
>
>The width can be set with [width=] and by default is .75\hsize.

Ah, is it possible to get the default values out of the source?
(Whenever I take a look at the source, I _know_ that my knowledge of TeX is 
rather small ...)

>>2. The lower space between text and frame is greater than the upper one.
>>(this is the case in the manual, too)  Should I use \startlinecorrection?
>>And how?  (just inside StartFrame, I cannot see a difference)
>
>probably a forced depth so that side by side frames look ok, in this
>particular case, there should be a it more space at the top, mabye
>[top=\vskip\dp\strutbox] will help
>

This looks a bit better, but the lower gap is still visually bigger.

Just to test my understanding ;-)  Does this mean: Step down the depth of a 
strutbox?

>>4. How comes I cannot copy the _formatted_ sources from the pdf? Neither
>>interactive nor print version worked.  I know (but not for sure) I have
>>copied code with linebreaks from another pdf but don't know what file
>> this was.
>
>you can try pdftotext

Great suggestion!

  pdftotext -f 181 -l 181 metafun-s.pdf -

outputs just this page on stdout.  And with this in (X)Emacs or a shell 
buffer, I can X Copy & Paste ...

Seems like this one is an error in XEmacs (my SuSE 6.4 came with the very 
old version 21.1; May 1999)

Keep on the good and friendly work!
Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Hans Hagen]

At 03:22 AM 12/20/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:

>Ah, is it possible to get the default values out of the source?
>(Whenever I take a look at the source, I _know_ that my knowledge of TeX is 
>rather small ...)

Well, core-rul.tex is reasonable documented and also has quite some
examples of usage. 

>This looks a bit better, but the lower gap is still visually bigger.
>
>Just to test my understanding ;-)  Does this mean: Step down the depth of a 
>strutbox?

Yes. You can try 1ex instead. 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Uwe Koloska]

You wrote on Mittwoch, 20. Dezember 2000 09:33:
>> [wrong lower gap in a framed box]
>>
>>This looks a bit better, but the lower gap is still visually bigger.
>>
> You can try 1ex instead.

Ok, I can tweak the value since it looks right.  But is it a problem of 
framed or funnyframe?  Or is it a feature?

Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Uwe Koloska]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1696 bytes --]

Hans wrote on Mittwoch, 20. Dezember 2000 09:33:
>At 03:22 AM 12/20/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
>>Ah, is it possible to get the default values out of the source?
>>(Whenever I take a look at the source, I _know_ that my knowledge of TeX
>> is rather small ...)
>
>Well, core-rul.tex is reasonable documented and also has quite some
>examples of usage.

Oh yes, your documentation often distinguishes you from other people!

But:  I was not able to make the module documentation without errors.

1. It uses the color DemoRed that is defined in colo-pra which is never
   loaded.
   So a quick workaround ist to add a line
         print MOD "\\input colo-pra      \n" ;
   in function "sub RunModule" in texexec

2. It uses "\sub" as a better version of "_" and though core-mat and
   supp-mat do mention this command too, it is never defined.  There is
   only "\suber".  And replacing "\sub" with "\suber" solves this problem.

3. The macro "\dostopbackground" uses "\{start,stop}linecorrection".  This
   has to be the dutch synonym "\{start,stop}regelcorrectie"

What is the language of the core? I suppose dutch.  Will this change?  So 
that I don't have to use texshow to get the right synonyms ;-)

BTW: in texshow startlinecorrection doesn't shows the corresponding 
stoplinecorrection ...

Oh, I'm using version 2000.12.10 and attached is the u-diff for core-rul. I 
didn't change the \sub-error in the docu (cause maybe I'm wrong).

Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)\0

[-- Attachment #2: core-rul.diff --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1072 bytes --]

--- /opt/teTeX/texmf/tex/context/base/core-rul.tex	Sun Dec  3 22:16:26 2000
+++ core-rul.tex	Wed Dec 20 17:40:10 2000
@@ -963,7 +963,7 @@
 %D 
 %D \startbuffer
 %D \startformule
-%D   x \times \mframed{y} \times y\super{\mframed{z}\sub{\mframed{z}}}
+%D   x \times \mframed{y} \times y\super{\mframed{z}\suber{\mframed{z}}}
 %D \stopformule
 %D \stopbuffer
 %D 
@@ -979,7 +979,7 @@
 %D 
 %D \startbuffer
 %D \startformule
-%D   x \times y\super{\mframed[kaderkleur=rood]{z}\sub{z}}
+%D   x \times y\super{\mframed[kaderkleur=rood]{z}\suber{z}}
 %D \stopformule
 %D \stopbuffer
 %D 
@@ -2488,11 +2488,11 @@
        \ifcase\backgroundsplit\or\or % partial split 
          \pagegoal=1.2\pagegoal % be a bit more tolerant
        \fi 
-       \startlinecorrection 
+       \startregelcorrectie
          \localframed
            [\??ag][\c!offset=\v!overlay]
            {\hskip\@@aglinkeroffset\box2\hskip\@@agrechteroffset}%
-       \stoplinecorrection 
+       \stopregelcorrectie
        \ifcase\backgroundsplit % no split  
          \@@agna
        \else % some split 

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Hans Hagen]

At 05:54 PM 12/20/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
>You wrote on Mittwoch, 20. Dezember 2000 09:33:
>>> [wrong lower gap in a framed box]
>>>
>>>This looks a bit better, but the lower gap is still visually bigger.
>>>
>> You can try 1ex instead.
>
>Ok, I can tweak the value since it looks right.  But is it a problem of 
>framed or funnyframe?  Or is it a feature?

It depends. I cnnot see your example, but it may be that there is a
dangling strut down there. Can you test it with 

\showstruts 

Hans 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Hans Hagen]

At 06:52 PM 12/20/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:

>Oh yes, your documentation often distinguishes you from other people!
>
>But:  I was not able to make the module documentation without errors.
>
>1. It uses the color DemoRed that is defined in colo-pra which is never
>   loaded.
>   So a quick workaround ist to add a line
>         print MOD "\\input colo-pra      \n" ;
>   in function "sub RunModule" in texexec

That smells like very old versions. You always need to have the doc and tmf
archives in sync. Can you fetch a more recent cont-doc.zip file? 

>2. It uses "\sub" as a better version of "_" and though core-mat and
>   supp-mat do mention this command too, it is never defined.  There is
>   only "\suber".  And replacing "\sub" with "\suber" solves this problem.

That's repaired quite some time ago but i seem to have forgotten one -)  

>3. The macro "\dostopbackground" uses "\{start,stop}linecorrection".  This
>   has to be the dutch synonym "\{start,stop}regelcorrectie"

right, again a recent patch, i'll fix it 

>What is the language of the core? I suppose dutch.  Will this change?  So 
>that I don't have to use texshow to get the right synonyms ;-)

It will be english low down there. I actually have a perl script that does
it [but i will do the big change when i have a moment without deadlines]. I
also have a perl script that precompiles the code making it a bit more fast
and compact -) 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Uwe Koloska]

Hans wrote on Donnerstag, 21. Dezember 2000 09:06:
>At 05:54 PM 12/20/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
>>
>>Ok, I can tweak the value since it looks right.  But is it a problem of
>>framed or funnyframe?  Or is it a feature?
>
>It depends. I cnnot see your example, but it may be that there is a
>dangling strut down there.

Oh, it's exactly the example written down in the metafun handbook 
(27.10.2000, screen, page 196) -- I have copied the text so that there are 
no (or the same) errors in the code ...

> Can you test it with
>
>\showstruts

Where do I have to put \showstruts?  I have tried the preamble, just after 
\starttext and after \startFrame -- no effect.

Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Uwe Koloska]

Hans wrote on Donnerstag, 21. Dezember 2000 09:16:
>
>That smells like very old versions. You always need to have the doc and
> tmf archives in sync. Can you fetch a more recent cont-doc.zip file?

Ahem, I have downloaded (and installed, of course) the latest beta with the 
corresponding doc.  Maybe it's the version of pdftex?

 TeXExec 2.3 - ConTeXt / PRAGMA ADE 1997-2000

            executable : pdfetex
                format : cont-en
             inputfile : funnyframe
                output : standard
             interface : en
          current mode : all
               TeX run : 1

This is pdfeTeX, Version 3.14159-14e-released-20000217-2.1 (Web2C 7.3.1)
entering extended mode
(funnyframe.tex{/usr/local/teTeX/texmf/pdftex/config/pdftex.cfg}

ConTeXt  ver: 2000.12.10  fmt: 2000.12.16  int: english  mes: english

Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Re: experimenting metafun: problems with funnyframe

[Hans Hagen]

At 01:52 PM 12/21/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
>Hans wrote on Donnerstag, 21. Dezember 2000 09:06:
>>At 05:54 PM 12/20/00 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
>>>
>>>Ok, I can tweak the value since it looks right.  But is it a problem of
>>>framed or funnyframe?  Or is it a feature?
>>
>>It depends. I cnnot see your example, but it may be that there is a
>>dangling strut down there.
>
>Oh, it's exactly the example written down in the metafun handbook 
>(27.10.2000, screen, page 196) -- I have copied the text so that there are 
>no (or the same) errors in the code ...
>
>> Can you test it with
>>
>>\showstruts
>
>Where do I have to put \showstruts?  I have tried the preamble, just after 
>\starttext and after \startFrame -- no effect.

Well, then there are no struts interfering. 

try \showstruts \strut and you see what i mean 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------