footnote control

footnote control

[Idris S Hamid]

Dear Cabinet,

A couple of footnote questions:

1. Is there an option for choosing one's own reference mark for any
given footnote, like in Plain?

2. Is there a conversion option for the famous nine reference mark
sequence (\fnsymbol in LaTeX):

star, dagger, double dagger, section, inverted `P', parallel,
star-star, dagger-dagger, double dagger-double dagger
?

I did not see it in the manual.

3. Is there a way to control the distance between the footnote rule and
the firstline of the footnote?

4. ConTeXt places the footnote reference mark just on the outside of the
margin. Can I place it inside? Can I indent the first paragraph of the
footnote with the reference mark (like in LaTeX)?

Unrelated:

Can I make an entire document default to oldstyle numbers? (Probably
not, since Knuth mapped these glyphs in a strange way).

That's the end of the rain shower for now, but I'll be back with more
I'm sure;-)
Idris

Re: footnote control

[Hans Hagen]

At 08:29 PM 2/4/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Dear Cabinet,
>
>A couple of footnote questions:
>
>1. Is there an option for choosing one's own reference mark for any
>given footnote, like in Plain?
>
>2. Is there a conversion option for the famous nine reference mark
>sequence (\fnsymbol in LaTeX):
>
>star, dagger, double dagger, section, inverted `P', parallel,
>star-star, dagger-dagger, double dagger-double dagger
>?
>
>I did not see it in the manual.

\starttext

\setupfootnotes
   [conversion=HowAboutIt]

\defineconversion
   [HowAboutIt]
   [One,Two,Three]

test \footnote{test}
test \footnote{test}
test \footnote{test}

\stoptext

any conversion can be used (see core-con.tex end of file for examples)

>3. Is there a way to control the distance between the footnote rule and
>the firstline of the footnote?

\def\MyRule
   {\blackrule[width=3cm,height=1mm]
    \vskip.5cm}

\setupfootnotes
   [rule=\MyRule,
    conversion=HowAboutIt]

>4. ConTeXt places the footnote reference mark just on the outside of the
>margin. Can I place it inside? Can I indent the first paragraph of the
>footnote with the reference mark (like in LaTeX)?

it's a description, so any of those settings apply

\setupfootnotedefinition
   [location=left,
    width=2cm]

[some time ago i sent you a some definable footnote macros, a sort of 
prelude to your critical edition project]

>Unrelated:
>
>Canw I make an entire document default to oldstyle numbers? (Probably
>not, since Knuth mapped these glyphs in a strange way).

you can, but you should construct a virtual font for that

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: footnote control

[Bruce D'Arcus]

While we're on footnotes, how would one change the footnote marker font?

I found this code that I can use in a LaTeX font .sty file, which tells 
the system to use a special virtual font (called "fn") that maps the 
superior digits into the standard figure slots:

\makeatletter
\def\@makefnmark{\hbox{\fontshape{fn}\selectfont\@thefnmark}}
\makeatother

How would I do something similar with ConTeXt?

Bruce

Re: footnote control

[Idris S Hamid]

Thnx a million. Things are much clearer now.


> [some time ago i sent you a some definable footnote macros, a sort of
> prelude to your critical edition project]

Yes, I must get back to that stuff soon, I've been seriously distracted by
having to do "real" philosophy. But real soon now...

> >Unrelated:
> >
> >Canw I make an entire document default to oldstyle numbers? (Probably
> >not, since Knuth mapped these glyphs in a strange way).
>
> you can, but you should construct a virtual font for that

I'll bug Alan Hoenig about this:-)

Best
Idris

Re: footnote control

[Bruce D'Arcus]

Nothing on this?  I assume the code below is specific to LaTeX?

I just need to tell ConTeXt to use a different font 
(MinionPro-Regular-FN-8y.tfm, which I am naming MinionPro-FN) for the 
footnote marker, and not to raise and shrink it (since the font has 
superior figures)....

Bruce

=======================

While we're on footnotes, how would one change the footnote marker font?

I found this code that I can use in a LaTeX font .sty file, which tells 
the system to use a special virtual font (called "fn") that maps the 
superior digits into the standard figure slots:

\makeatletter
\def\@makefnmark{\hbox{\fontshape{fn}\selectfont\@thefnmark}}
\makeatother

How would I do something similar with ConTeXt?

Bruce

Re: footnote control

[Willi Egger]

Hi Bruce
 
> I just need to tell ConTeXt to use a different font 
> (MinionPro-Regular-FN-8y.tfm, which I am naming MinionPro-FN) for the 
> footnote marker, and not to raise and shrink it (since the font has 
> superior figures)....

I believe that \stupfootnotes should have all possibilities you need:

\setupfootnotes[..,..=..,..]
  conversion     numbers characters Characters romannumerals Romannumerals
  way     bytext bysection
  location     page text columns high none
  rule     on off
  before     command
  after     command
  width     dimension
  height     dimension
  bodyfont     5pt ... 12pt small big
  style     normal bold slanted boldslanted type cap small... command
  distance     dimension
  columndistance     dimension
  margindistance      dimension
  n     number
  numbercommand     \command#1
  split     tolerant strict verystrict number
  ..=.. see p 206: \framed

Willi

Re: footnote control

[Bruce D'Arcus]

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On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 10:52  AM, Willi Egger wrote:

> I believe that \setupfootnotes should have all possibilities you 
> need...

Ah hah, you are right!  I had not had success with this in the past, 
but it seems it was because of my previous typescripts.  For anyone 
interested, this indeed works, with one little problem, which is that 
if there are multiple consecutive footnotes, the kerning gets screwed 
up (screenshot attached):

\def\FootnoteNumber%
{\switchtobodyfont[Serif]}

\setupfootnotes[numbercommand=\FootnoteNumber]
\setupfootnotedefinition[after=\blank,
style={\switchtobodyfont[SerifFootnote]},
]

Any suggestions for fixing that?

Bruce


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Re: footnote control

[Adam Lindsay]

Bruce D'Arcus said this at Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:14:09 -0500:

>the kerning gets screwed 
>up (screenshot attached):

Do you mean the spacing of the superior "1 2 3"?
If it were not spaced out, I'd read it as "123", definitely a feasible
number if there were endnotes...

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay                      atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Computing Dept, Lancaster University   +44(0)1524/594.537
 Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/593.608
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: footnote control

[Bruce D'Arcus]

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On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 11:28  AM, Adam Lindsay wrote:

> Bruce D'Arcus said this at Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:14:09 -0500:
>
>> the kerning gets screwed
>> up (screenshot attached):
>
> Do you mean the spacing of the superior "1 2 3"?
> If it were not spaced out, I'd read it as "123", definitely a feasible
> number if there were endnotes...

Yes, spacing.  I take your point, but I think the spacing is too much, 
while perhaps the LaTeX example (also attached), is a bit cramped.  I 
still think the latter is more natural...

Also, I take back from previous "it works" comment.  It doesn't, and 
I'm not sure where the problem is (it could even be in the tfm).  I 
have a typescript that has:

\starttypescript [serif] [minionpro] [name]

   \definefontsynonym [Serif]               [MinionPro-Regular]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]           [MinionPro-Caps]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]           [MinionPro-BoldCaps]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted]        [MinionPro-RegularItalic]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]         [MinionPro-RegularItalic]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]           [MinionPro-Bold]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldSlanted]    [MinionPro-BoldItalic]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic]     [MinionPro-BoldItalic]
   \definefontsynonym [SerifFootnote]       [MinionPro-FN]

\stoptypescript

\starttypescript [serif] [minionpro,minionpro-osf] [texnansi]

   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-Bold]        [MinionPro-Bold-OSF-8y] 
[encoding=texnansi]
   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-BoldItalic] 
[MinionPro-BoldIt-OSF-8y][encoding=texnansi]
   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-BoldSlanted] 
[MinionPro-BoldIt-OSF-8y][encoding=texnansi]
   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-Caps]      [MinionPro-Regular-OSFSC-8y] 
[encoding=texnansi]
   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-BoldCaps]      [MinionPro-Bold-OSFSC-8y] 
[encoding=texnansi]
   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-Regular]        
[MinionPro-Regular-OSF-8y] [encoding=texnansi]
   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-RegularItalic] 
[MinionPro-It-OSF-8y][encoding=texnansi]
   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-RegularSlanted] 
[MinionPro-It-OSF-8y][encoding=texnansi]
   \definefontsynonym[MinionPro-FN]        [MinionPro-Regular-FN-8y] 
[encoding=texnansi]

\stoptypescript

And I have in the doc header:

\def\FootnoteNumber%
{\switchtobodyfont[Serif]}

\setupfootnotes[numbercommand=\FootnoteNumber]
\setupfootnotedefinition[
after=\blank,
style={\switchtobodyfont[SerifFootnote]},
]

A)  Can I do this with this command?

B)  If yes, how?  Or is the above correct, and I should look elsewhere?

Bruce


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Re: footnote control

[Willi Egger]

Hi Bruce,
> And I have in the doc header:
> 
> \def\FootnoteNumber%
> {\switchtobodyfont[Serif]}
> 
> \setupfootnotes[numbercommand=\FootnoteNumber]
> \setupfootnotedefinition[
> after=\blank,
> style={\switchtobodyfont[SerifFootnote]},
> ]
> 
> A)  Can I do this with this command?

No
 
> B)  If yes, how?  Or is the above correct, and I should look elsewhere?

Untested, but in the \setupfootnote the numbercommand needs a #1: 
   \def\FootnoteNumber%
  {\switchtobodyfont[Serif]#1}

Willi 

Re: footnote control

[Bruce D'Arcus]

On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 03:53  PM, Willi Egger wrote:
>> B)  If yes, how?  Or is the above correct, and I should look 
>> elsewhere?
>
> Untested, but in the \setupfootnote the numbercommand needs a #1:
>    \def\FootnoteNumber%
>   {\switchtobodyfont[Serif]#1}

Thanks Willi!  Here's what happens though (am just pasting the part 
that seems relevant):

! You can't use `macro parameter character #' in restricted horizontal 
mode.
\FootnoteNumber ->\switchtobodyfont [Serif]##
                                              1
<argument> ...eference ]\else \@@vnnummercommando
                                                   {\preparednumber 
\domovedn...

\doattributes ...EA \csname #1#2\endcsname \fi {#4
                                                   }\dostopattributes
\normal@@definitiewoord ...c!tekst }#4\endstrut }}
                                                   \rawreference {\s!def 
}{#2...

\@@dostartdefinitie ...rut ##\hss \cr #3\crcr }}}}
                                                   }\!!widthb \getvalue 
{\??d...

\@@definitieinleft ...ostartdefinitie {#1}[#2]{#3}
                                                   \noindent 
\ignorespaces \i...
...
l.21 ...ler that fi and ffi, 0123456789.\footnote{
                                                   Let's see if 
protruding is...


If I remove the #1 again, I get a bunch of lines like this, which seems 
to suggest more typescript problems!

(/Users/bdarcus/Library/texmf/tex/context/base/type-pre.tex)
bodyfont       : unknown variant SerifFootnote
(/Users/bdarcus/Library/texmf/tex/context/base/type-pre.tex)
bodyfont       : unknown variant Serif

Bruce

Re: footnote control

[Willi Egger]

Hi Bruce,
> Thanks Willi!  Here's what happens though (am just pasting the part 
> that seems relevant):

Sorry, I see that my idea was not helping that much.
What after testing works here is the following

\def\FootnoteNumber%
{\switchtobodyfont[ss,16pt]}

\setupfootnotes[numbercommand=\FootnoteNumber]
\setupfootnotedefinition
   [after=\blank,
    style={\switchtobodyfont[rm]}]

Willi

Re: footnote control

[Bruce D'Arcus]

Yes this works (well, the ss doesn't, but that's probably because of 
something with my typescript).

So the question is, what does this tell me about specifying the 
footnote font?  Or in more general terms, what if I wanted -- for some 
reason -- to use the sans italic font for the footnote marker?  Am just 
not understanding the logic of font selection here (obviously!).  Do I 
need to do some funky \definetypeface command?

Bruce

On Friday, February 14, 2003, at 03:00  PM, Willi Egger wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
>> Thanks Willi!  Here's what happens though (am just pasting the part
>> that seems relevant):
>
> Sorry, I see that my idea was not helping that much.
> What after testing works here is the following
>
> \def\FootnoteNumber%
> {\switchtobodyfont[ss,16pt]}
>
> \setupfootnotes[numbercommand=\FootnoteNumber]
> \setupfootnotedefinition
>    [after=\blank,
>     style={\switchtobodyfont[rm]}]
>
> Willi

Re: footnote control

[Willi Egger]

Hi Bruce,

I don't know. - I tested with cmr and cmss only. I found it strange though,
that \switchtobodyfont[Serif] did not result into what I thought it should!

Sorry, Willi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@fastmail.fm>
To: <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] footnote control


>
> Yes this works (well, the ss doesn't, but that's probably because of
> something with my typescript).
>
> So the question is, what does this tell me about specifying the
> footnote font?  Or in more general terms, what if I wanted -- for some
> reason -- to use the sans italic font for the footnote marker?  Am just
> not understanding the logic of font selection here (obviously!).  Do I
> need to do some funky \definetypeface command?
>
> Bruce
>
> On Friday, February 14, 2003, at 03:00  PM, Willi Egger wrote:
>
> > Hi Bruce,
> >> Thanks Willi!  Here's what happens though (am just pasting the part
> >> that seems relevant):
> >
> > Sorry, I see that my idea was not helping that much.
> > What after testing works here is the following
> >
> > \def\FootnoteNumber%
> > {\switchtobodyfont[ss,16pt]}
> >
> > \setupfootnotes[numbercommand=\FootnoteNumber]
> > \setupfootnotedefinition
> >    [after=\blank,
> >     style={\switchtobodyfont[rm]}]
> >
> > Willi
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>

Re: footnote control

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:24 PM 2/14/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi Bruce,
>
>I don't know. - I tested with cmr and cmss only. I found it strange though,
>that \switchtobodyfont[Serif] did not result into what I thought it should!

is Serif defined? (i know of serif and rm)

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf
                     documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: footnote control

[Bruce D'Arcus]

Hmm...maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me these commands have no effect 
on the in-text footnote marker; that they only apply to the footnote 
per se.

OK, I found two private messages from Hans from awhile back on this, 
before I got back to dealing with this.  The relevant parts are this:

>> And to use your example of Frutiger, what font selection command do 
>> you use to get Frutiger Ultra Black in a chapter title?  I still 
>> don't know how to use a medium small cap font in a document!
>
> \definefont[ChapterTitleFont][Frutiger-Ultra-Black]
>
> \setuphead[chapter][style=ChapterTitleFont]
>
> so, that's not for typescripts but for styles

And this:

> I'm not sure about hwo to deal with the footnote font; probably 
> composing a dedicate typeface is the best; of if it's only used for 
> symbols, it should be just a def and mapped onto a symbol (symb-*.tex)

So, if there was a command to set the footnote marker, I'd need to do a 
\definefont for a special "FootnoteFont."

However, there is no such command; right?  Seems like it might be 
useful.

I don't really understand the above comment, or how I operationalize 
it.  Can someone (Hans?) explain?

Bruce

Re: footnote control

[Hans Hagen]

At 04:12 PM 2/14/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Hmm...maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me these commands have no effect on 
>the in-text footnote marker; that they only apply to the footnote per se.
>
>OK, I found two private messages from Hans from awhile back on this, 
>before I got back to dealing with this.  The relevant parts are this:
>
>>>And to use your example of Frutiger, what font selection command do you 
>>>use to get Frutiger Ultra Black in a chapter title?  I still don't know 
>>>how to use a medium small cap font in a document!
>>
>>\definefont[ChapterTitleFont][Frutiger-Ultra-Black]
>>
>>\setuphead[chapter][style=ChapterTitleFont]
>>
>>so, that's not for typescripts but for styles
>
>And this:
>
>>I'm not sure about hwo to deal with the footnote font; probably composing 
>>a dedicate typeface is the best; of if it's only used for symbols, it 
>>should be just a def and mapped onto a symbol (symb-*.tex)
>
>So, if there was a command to set the footnote marker, I'd need to do a 
>\definefont for a special "FootnoteFont."
>
>However, there is no such command; right?  Seems like it might be useful.
>
>I don't really understand the above comment, or how I operationalize 
>it.  Can someone (Hans?) explain?

busy ....

if you want, you can use the new footnote module (that i made for idris) 
which gives you footnote classes that are configurable; i can more easily 
add new features to that one, so let me know if you want to volunteer ..

Hans 

Re: footnote control

[Bruce D'Arcus]

On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 04:28  AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

> if you want, you can use the new footnote module (that i made for 
> idris) which gives you footnote classes that are configurable; i can 
> more easily add new features to that one

I think what I want is \setupfootnotemark.

I take it you're adding the new module to the distribution soon?  If 
yes, I can wait.  I'm just trying to sort all this out as I'm setting 
up these fonts.

On the other hand, if you want someone else to test it, I can do that...

Bruce