Quotation with footnote

Quotation with footnote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

My current book contains a lot of quotations with their sources marked as footnotes, e.g.


\definedelimitedtext[Zitat][
  %setups=Zitat, % doesn’t work!?
  left=»,
  right=«,
  leftmargin=2em,
  rightmargin=1.5em,
]

\startZitat
A rose is a rose is a rose.\footnote{Marx brothers}
\stopZitat


Now, since the quotations are whole sentences or paragraphs, the footnote marker needs to be placed _after_ the closing quotation mark. (German typography, I learned it’s different at least in US English.)

I tried several approaches e.g. with my own single start/stop macros that call \start/stopnarrower or \start/stopZitat – that always lead to unclosed environments.

* Only the delimitedtext approach gives a hanging opening quotation mark (which looks nice and I’d like to have).

* \stopnarrower within a macro doesn’t seem to work (all following text stays narrower).

* I can’t get rid of that space introduced by the CR before \stop – didn’t find a place where \gobblespacetokens works, maybe that’s the wrong command.


Most preferred would be a solution that checked if there’s a footnote in front of \stopZitat and would put the closing quotation mark in front instead of after. Without a footnote it would just place the mark.

Something like \stopZitat\footnote{...} would also be nice, but I guess that’s too far outside of TeX’s logic.

In the worst case I’d need to typeset the closing mark manually.

Some hints please?

Hraban
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Re: Quotation with footnote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 04.09.2020 um 13:25 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net>:
> 
> My current book contains a lot of quotations with their sources marked as footnotes, e.g.
> 
> 
> \definedelimitedtext[Zitat][
>  %setups=Zitat, % doesn’t work!?
>  left=»,
>  right=«,
>  leftmargin=2em,
>  rightmargin=1.5em,
> ]
> 
> \startZitat
> A rose is a rose is a rose.\footnote{Marx brothers}
> \stopZitat
> 
> 
> Now, since the quotations are whole sentences or paragraphs, the footnote marker needs to be placed _after_ the closing quotation mark. (German typography, I learned it’s different at least in US English.)
> 
> I tried several approaches e.g. with my own single start/stop macros that call \start/stopnarrower or \start/stopZitat – that always lead to unclosed environments.

This looks as I want it to:

\setupnarrower[left=2em,right=1.5em]

\startnarrower
\hskip-0.33em\quotation{Im übrigen ist der Mensch ein Lebewesen, das klopft, schlechte Musik macht und seinen Hund bellen läßt. Manchmal gibt er auch Ruhe, aber dann ist er tot.}\footnote[f:9]{Kaspar Hauser (Kurt Tucholsky), Weltbühne 24, 16.\,6.\,1931}
\stopnarrower

But how can I make that into a single environment?


Hraban
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Re: Quotation with footnote

[Taco Hoekwater]

Something like this?


\definenarrower[myquote]
\setupnarrower[myquote]
  [left=2em,
   right=1.5em,
   before=\dontleavehmode\hskip-0.33em\startquote,
   after=\stopquote]

\startmyquote
Im übrigen ist der Mensch ein Lebewesen, das klopft, schlechte Musik macht und seinen Hund bellen läßt. Manchmal gibt er auch Ruhe, aber dann ist er tot.
\stopmyquote \footnote[f:9]{Kaspar Hauser (Kurt Tucholsky), Weltbühne 24, 16.\,6.\,1931}


But there may be smarter solutions.

Best wishes,
Taco

> On 4 Sep 2020, at 13:25, Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
> 
> My current book contains a lot of quotations with their sources marked as footnotes, e.g.
> 
> 
> \definedelimitedtext[Zitat][
>  %setups=Zitat, % doesn’t work!?
>  left=»,
>  right=«,
>  leftmargin=2em,
>  rightmargin=1.5em,
> ]
> 
> \startZitat
> A rose is a rose is a rose.\footnote{Marx brothers}
> \stopZitat
> 
> 
> Now, since the quotations are whole sentences or paragraphs, the footnote marker needs to be placed _after_ the closing quotation mark. (German typography, I learned it’s different at least in US English.)
> 
> I tried several approaches e.g. with my own single start/stop macros that call \start/stopnarrower or \start/stopZitat – that always lead to unclosed environments.
> 
> * Only the delimitedtext approach gives a hanging opening quotation mark (which looks nice and I’d like to have).
> 
> * \stopnarrower within a macro doesn’t seem to work (all following text stays narrower).
> 
> * I can’t get rid of that space introduced by the CR before \stop – didn’t find a place where \gobblespacetokens works, maybe that’s the wrong command.
> 
> 
> Most preferred would be a solution that checked if there’s a footnote in front of \stopZitat and would put the closing quotation mark in front instead of after. Without a footnote it would just place the mark.
> 
> Something like \stopZitat\footnote{...} would also be nice, but I guess that’s too far outside of TeX’s logic.
> 
> In the worst case I’d need to typeset the closing mark manually.
> 
> Some hints please?
> 
> Hraban
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

Taco Hoekwater
Elvenkind BV




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Re: Quotation with footnote

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Henning Hraban Ramm schrieb am 04.09.2020 um 15:34:
>> Am 04.09.2020 um 13:25 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net>:
>>
>> My current book contains a lot of quotations with their sources marked as footnotes, e.g.
>>
>>
>> \definedelimitedtext[Zitat][
>>   %setups=Zitat, % doesn’t work!?
>>   left=»,
>>   right=«,
>>   leftmargin=2em,
>>   rightmargin=1.5em,
>> ]
>>
>> \startZitat
>> A rose is a rose is a rose.\footnote{Marx brothers}
>> \stopZitat
>>
>>
>> Now, since the quotations are whole sentences or paragraphs, the footnote marker needs to be placed _after_ the closing quotation mark. (German typography, I learned it’s different at least in US English.)
>>
>> I tried several approaches e.g. with my own single start/stop macros that call \start/stopnarrower or \start/stopZitat – that always lead to unclosed environments.
> This looks as I want it to:
>
> \setupnarrower[left=2em,right=1.5em]
>
> \startnarrower
> \hskip-0.33em\quotation{Im übrigen ist der Mensch ein Lebewesen, das klopft, schlechte Musik macht und seinen Hund bellen läßt. Manchmal gibt er auch Ruhe, aber dann ist er tot.}\footnote[f:9]{Kaspar Hauser (Kurt Tucholsky), Weltbühne 24, 16.\,6.\,1931}
> \stopnarrower
>
> But how can I make that into a single environment?

\startsetups [userdata:myquote]
     \startnarrow [left=2em,right=1.5em]
%\dontleavehmode\llap{\symbol[leftquotation]}\getinlineuserdata\symbol[rightquotation]
         \symbol[leftquotation]\getinlineuserdata\symbol[rightquotation]
         \doifsomething{\userdataparameter{source}}
{\footnote[\userdataparameter{reference}]{\userdataparameter{source}}}
     \stopnarrow
\stopsetups

\defineuserdataalternative
   [myquote]
   [renderingsetup=userdata:myquote]

\defineuserdata
   [myquote]
   [alternative=myquote]

\showframe

\definefontfeature [default] [default] [protrusion=quality]

\setupalign [hanging]

\starttext

\startuserdata [myquote] [reference={f:9},source={Kaspar Hauser (Kurt 
Tucholsky), Weltbühne 24, 16.\,6.\,1931}]
Im übrigen ist der Mensch ein Lebewesen, das klopft, schlechte Musik 
macht und seinen Hund bellen läßt. Manchmal gibt er auch Ruhe, aber dann 
ist er tot.
\stopuserdata

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Quotation with footnote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 04.09.2020 um 16:04 schrieb Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>:
> 
> Something like this?
> 
> \definenarrower[myquote]
> \setupnarrower[myquote]
>  [left=2em,
>   right=1.5em,
>   before=\dontleavehmode\hskip-0.33em\startquote,
>   after=\stopquote]
> 
> \startmyquote
> Im übrigen ist der Mensch ein Lebewesen, das klopft, schlechte Musik macht und seinen Hund bellen läßt. Manchmal gibt er auch Ruhe, aber dann ist er tot.
> \stopmyquote \footnote[f:9]{Kaspar Hauser (Kurt Tucholsky), Weltbühne 24, 16.\,6.\,1931}
> 
> But there may be smarter solutions.

Thank you, that works and requires minimal adaptions to my code.

Hraban

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Re: Quotation with footnote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 04.09.2020 um 16:20 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com>:
> 
> \startsetups [userdata:myquote]
>     \startnarrow [left=2em,right=1.5em]
> %\dontleavehmode\llap{\symbol[leftquotation]}\getinlineuserdata\symbol[rightquotation]
>         \symbol[leftquotation]\getinlineuserdata\symbol[rightquotation]
>         \doifsomething{\userdataparameter{source}}
> {\footnote[\userdataparameter{reference}]{\userdataparameter{source}}}
>     \stopnarrow
> \stopsetups
> 
> \defineuserdataalternative
>   [myquote]
>   [renderingsetup=userdata:myquote]
> 
> \defineuserdata
>   [myquote]
>   [alternative=myquote]
> 
> \showframe
> 
> \definefontfeature [default] [default] [protrusion=quality]
> 
> \setupalign [hanging]
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \startuserdata [myquote] [reference={f:9},source={Kaspar Hauser (Kurt Tucholsky), Weltbühne 24, 16.\,6.\,1931}]
> Im übrigen ist der Mensch ein Lebewesen, das klopft, schlechte Musik macht und seinen Hund bellen läßt. Manchmal gibt er auch Ruhe, aber dann ist er tot.
> \stopuserdata
> 
> \stoptext

Thank you! This is quite sophisticated and I’ll keep it for next time, but for my current book, Taco’s solutions needs less adaption.

Hraban
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Re: Quotation with footnote

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 04.09.2020 um 16:04 schrieb Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>:
> \definenarrower[myquote]
> \setupnarrower[myquote]
>  [left=2em,
>   right=1.5em,
>   before=\dontleavehmode\hskip-0.33em\startquote,
>   after=\stopquote]
> 
> \startmyquote
> Im übrigen ist der Mensch ein Lebewesen, das klopft, schlechte Musik macht und seinen Hund bellen läßt. Manchmal gibt er auch Ruhe, aber dann ist er tot.
> \stopmyquote \footnote[f:9]{Kaspar Hauser (Kurt Tucholsky), Weltbühne 24, 16.\,6.\,1931}

The behaviour changed in current LMTX – I thought, but then I recognized I was accidentally using MkIV from January:

If I used
\setupdelimitedtext[quotation][method=font]
I didn’t get indentation ("narrower") any more.

If I didn’t, the footnote marker moved into the next line.


Just to document that change – seems to be a fixed bug.


Hraban
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