Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

>  > So I don't have to post so many (unanswered) questions any more...
>
>  Posting ConTeXt questions is fun, so don't stop doing this.
>
>
>  Patrick



Alright! So maybe I am also allowed to send again
one of my favorite problems from last week?

Still unanswered. Still unsolved. Very interesting!

To whom it may concern - don't hesitate to post an answer...

Thank you all,
Steffen



Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

>  At 10:05 19/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>  >Hi Steffen,
>
>
>
>  > > \definepagebreak
>  > >     [chapter]
>  > >     [yes,header,right]
>
>  \definepagebreak
>     [chapter]
>     [empty,header,right]


Sorry, but that doesn't work.

When changed the minimal example to...

\definepagebreak
    [chapter]
    [empty,header,right]

\setuphead
    [chapter]
    [page=chapter,]

\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]

\starttext
\startfrontmatter
    \completecontent
\stopfrontmatter
\startbodymatter
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
\stopbodymatter

\stoptext


... we have page numbers on (empty) page number 4, 18 and 19!

Plus there are two strange empty empty pages before the TOC?!

Steffen

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Willi Egger]

Hi Steffen,

From: "Steffen Wolfrum" <wlfrm@estfiles.de>
Subject: [NTG-context] Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?


> >  > So I don't have to post so many (unanswered) questions any more...
> >
> >  Posting ConTeXt questions is fun, so don't stop doing this.
> >
> >
> >  Patrick
>
>
>
> Alright! So maybe I am also allowed to send again
> one of my favorite problems from last week?
>
> Still unanswered. Still unsolved. Very interesting!
>
> To whom it may concern - don't hesitate to post an answer...
>
> Thank you all,
> Steffen
>
>
>
> Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
> >  At 10:05 19/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
> >  >Hi Steffen,
> >
> >
> >
> >  > > \definepagebreak
> >  > >     [chapter]
> >  > >     [yes,header,right]
> >
> >  \definepagebreak
> >     [chapter]
> >     [empty,header,right]
>
>
> Sorry, but that doesn't work.
>
> When changed the minimal example to...
>
> \definepagebreak
>     [chapter]
>     [empty,header,right]
>
> \setuphead
>     [chapter]
>     [page=chapter,]
>
> \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
>
> \starttext
> \startfrontmatter
>     \completecontent
> \stopfrontmatter
> \startbodymatter
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
> \stopbodymatter
>
> \stoptext
>
>
> ... we have page numbers on (empty) page number 4, 18 and 19!
>
> Plus there are two strange empty empty pages before the TOC?!

If you want to get a doublesided tzpeset document you should add also
\setuplayout[location=doublesided].

I am not shure, whether the following is correct!

Empty pages at the beginning:

You start the frontmatters with the \completecontent. - I could imagine that
this is a consequence of the fact that the TOC starts always on a righthand
page. - Thus at the  moment of \startbodymatter tex is already on the first
page. But after identifying the \completecontents command will create two
page breaks in order to be able to typeset the TOC on a righthand page.

Pagenumbers on empty pages before starting a new chapter

Chapters begin on a right hand page. If the lefthand page is empty, there is
correctly still the pagenumber. I do not know whether it is possible to
check whether the page before a new chapter is completely empty. What one
should fetch is this information just before shipping this page.

What you can do is to use the \setuphead command. Either use page=no then
the next chapter will start immediately or say page=yes and the next chapter
will start on the following page which might be a left- or righthand page.

Willi

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Patrick Gundlach <pg@levana.de> wrote:

> Steffen Wolfrum <st.wolfrum@estfiles.de> writes:
> 
> 
> > This \setupsectionblock[...part][page=no] is a good idea, 
> > but the pagebreak definition was wrong. See this:
> >
> > \definepagebreak
> >     [chapter]
> >     [yes,header,right]
> 
> 
> I can't see any difference here.



I also can't see the difference between

\definepagebreak[chapter][empty,header,right]

and

\definepagebreak[chapter][yes,header,right]

But the first one gives three additional pages where just one is needed,
and the control over the empty page's header (empty or not) gets lost.

The [yes,header,right] solution gives just the page that is needed (for the next chapter to start on a right page) and this page is empty, finally.

Steffen

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Patrick Gundlach]

Steffen Wolfrum <st.wolfrum@estfiles.de> writes:


> This \setupsectionblock[...part][page=no] is a good idea, 
> but the pagebreak definition was wrong. See this:
>
> \definepagebreak
>     [chapter]
>     [yes,header,right]


I can't see any difference here.

> Now it's fine. 
good to know.

Patrick
-- 
You are your own rainbow!

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hi,

Patrick Gundlach <pg@levana.de> wrote:

> Steffen Wolfrum <st.wolfrum@estfiles.de> writes:
> 
> > If I use the \startfrontmatter cum suis then there is a numbered
> > page after the TOC and the last page if even and empty is also
> > numbered. Inside the \startbodymatter \stopbodymatter the emptypages
> > at new chapters are empty pages with an empty header, thus no
> > pagenumber.
> 
> 
> except for the last page: see if this solves your problem:
> 
> \definepagebreak
>     [chapter]
>     [empty,header,right]
> 
> 
> \setupsectionblock[frontpart][page=no]   % not needed?
> \setupsectionblock[bodypart][page=no]
> \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
> 
> \starttext
> \startfrontmatter
>  \completecontent
> \stopfrontmatter
> \setuphead
>     [chapter]
>     [page=chapter,
>     ]
> 
> 
> \startbodymatter
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte \par}
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte \par}
> \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte \par}
> \stopbodymatter
> \stoptext
> 
> 
> Patrick


This \setupsectionblock[...part][page=no] is a good idea, 
but the pagebreak definition was wrong. See this:

\definepagebreak
    [chapter]
    [yes,header,right]


Now it's fine. 


Thank you,

Steffen

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Patrick Gundlach]

Steffen Wolfrum <st.wolfrum@estfiles.de> writes:

> If I use the \startfrontmatter cum suis then there is a numbered
> page after the TOC and the last page if even and empty is also
> numbered. Inside the \startbodymatter \stopbodymatter the emptypages
> at new chapters are empty pages with an empty header, thus no
> pagenumber.


except for the last page: see if this solves your problem:

\definepagebreak
    [chapter]
    [empty,header,right]


\setupsectionblock[frontpart][page=no]   % not needed?
\setupsectionblock[bodypart][page=no]
\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]

\starttext
\startfrontmatter
 \completecontent
\stopfrontmatter
\setuphead
    [chapter]
    [page=chapter,
    ]


\startbodymatter
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte \par}
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte \par}
\chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte \par}
\stopbodymatter
\stoptext


Patrick
-- 
You are your own rainbow!

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Patrick Gundlach <pg@levana.de> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Steffen Wolfrum <wlfrm@estfiles.de> writes:
> 
> > may I also ask you for an idea or a statement on this old problem?
> >
> > It is about numbered empty pages that are generated when using a
> > front-, body-, backmatter project structure.
> 
> Have you tried the suggestions from willi? What is the current state
> of the problem? Could you post your efforts so far?

Yes, sure:

This works for me, if no \startfrontmatter and \startbodymatter and the \stop... equivalents are used.
If I use the \startfrontmatter cum suis then there is a numbered page after the TOC and the last page if even and empty is also numbered. Inside the \startbodymatter \stopbodymatter the emptypages at new chapters are empty pages with an empty header, thus no pagenumber.

So if I use the recommended project structure I still have the generated-numbered-empty-pages problem at the end of each matter block.

Does someone know how to avoid this, and how to make generated empty pages by default empty?

Hans, you must know your child best, no?

Steffen

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

Steffen Wolfrum <wlfrm@estfiles.de> writes:

> may I also ask you for an idea or a statement on this old problem?
>
> It is about numbered empty pages that are generated when using a
> front-, body-, backmatter project structure.

Have you tried the suggestions from willi? What is the current state
of the problem? Could you post your efforts so far?

Please avoid top posts.

Patrick

-- 
You are your own rainbow!

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hi Hans,

may I also ask you for an idea or a statement on this old problem?

It is about numbered empty pages that are generated when using a front-, body-, backmatter project structure.

Thank you,

Steffen



----- Original Message ----- 
>> >  > Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> >  >
>> >  > >  At 10:05 19/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>> >  > >  >Hi Steffen,
>> >  > >
>> >  > >
>> >  > >
>> >  > >  > > \definepagebreak
>> >  > >  > >     [chapter]
>> >  > >  > >     [yes,header,right]
>> >  > >
>> >  > >  \definepagebreak
>> >  > >     [chapter]
>> >  > >     [empty,header,right]
>> >  >
>> >  >
>> >  > Sorry, but that doesn't work.
>> >  >
>> >  > When changed the minimal example to...
>> >  >
>> >  > \definepagebreak
>> >  >     [chapter]
>> >  >     [empty,header,right]
>> >  >
>> >  > \setuphead
>> >  >     [chapter]
>> >  >     [page=chapter,]
>> >  >
>> >  > \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
>> >  >
>> >  > \starttext
>> >  > \startfrontmatter
>> >  >     \completecontent
>> >  > \stopfrontmatter
>> >  > \startbodymatter
>> >  > \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
>> >  > \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
>> >  > \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
>> >  > \stopbodymatter
>> >  >
>> >  > \stoptext
>> >  >
>> >  >
>> >  > ... we have page numbers on (empty) page number 4, 18 and 19!
>> >  >
>> >  > Plus there are two strange empty empty pages before the TOC?!
>> >
>> >  If you want to get a doublesided tzpeset document you should add also
>> >  \setuplayout[location=doublesided].
>> >
>> >  I am not shure, whether the following is correct!
>> >
>> >  Empty pages at the beginning:
>> >
>> >  You start the frontmatters with the \completecontent. - I could imagine
>> >  that
>> >  this is a consequence of the fact that the TOC starts always on a
>righthand
>> >  page. - Thus at the  moment of \startbodymatter tex is already on the
>first
>> >  page. But after identifying the \completecontents command will create
>two
>> >  page breaks in order to be able to typeset the TOC on a righthand page.
>> >
>> >  Pagenumbers on empty pages before starting a new chapter
>> >
>> >  Chapters begin on a right hand page. If the lefthand page is empty,
>there
>> >  is
>> >  correctly still the pagenumber. I do not know whether it is possible to
>> >  check whether the page before a new chapter is completely empty.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Willi, I hope that it can't be to difficult:
>>
>> Cause the page before a new chapter is actually completely empty JUST
>> BECAUSE it is generated by (Con)TeX(t) - for chapters should begin on
>> a right page.
>>
>> So I only ask for empty pages (without pagenumbers) that are
>> generated by (Con)TeX(t).
>>
>> That's not possible in ConTeXt?
>>
>> Steffen
>
>Try the following:
>
>\definepagebreak
>    [chapter]
>    [yes,header,right] % yes instead of emtpy taken from the sources
>page-ini.tex line 1611
>\setuphead
>    [chapter]
>    [page=chapter]
>
>\setuppagenumbering[alternative={doublesided,marginedge}]
>\setuplayout[location=doublesided]
>
>This worsk for me, if no \startfrontmatter and \startbodymatter and and the
>\stop... equivalents are used.
>If I use the \startfrontmatter cum suis then there is a numbered page after
>the TOC and the last page if even and empty is also numbered. Inside the
>\startbodymatter \stopbodymatter the emptypages at new chapters are empty
>pages with an empty header, thus no pagenumber.
>
>Instead o placeing \completecontents you might want to use \placecontent
>which prevents the empty pages discussed before.
>
>Willi
>
>_______________________________________________
>ntg-context mailing list
>ntg-context@ntg.nl
>http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Re: Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?

[Steffen Wolfrum]

The following message was sent by "Willi Egger" <w.egger@boede.nl> on 
Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:16:01 +0200.

&gt; Hi Steffen,
>
>  From: "Steffen Wolfrum" <wlfrm@estfiles.de>
>  Subject: [NTG-context] Again: How to make empty pages by default empty?
>
>
>  > >  > So I don't have to post so many (unanswered) questions any more...
>  > >
>  > >  Posting ConTeXt questions is fun, so don't stop doing this.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  Patrick
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Alright! So maybe I am also allowed to send again
>  > one of my favorite problems from last week?
>  >
>  > Still unanswered. Still unsolved. Very interesting!
>  >
>  > To whom it may concern - don't hesitate to post an answer...
>  >
>  > Thank you all,
>  > Steffen
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>  >
>  > >  At 10:05 19/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>  > >  >Hi Steffen,
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  > > \definepagebreak
>  > >  > >     [chapter]
>  > >  > >     [yes,header,right]
>  > >
>  > >  \definepagebreak
>  > >     [chapter]
>  > >     [empty,header,right]
>  >
>  >
>  > Sorry, but that doesn't work.
>  >
>  > When changed the minimal example to...
>  >
>  > \definepagebreak
>  >     [chapter]
>  >     [empty,header,right]
>  >
>  > \setuphead
>  >     [chapter]
>  >     [page=chapter,]
>  >
>  > \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
>  >
>  > \starttext
>  > \startfrontmatter
>  >     \completecontent
>  > \stopfrontmatter
>  > \startbodymatter
>  > \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
>  > \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
>  > \chapter {test} \dorecurse{10}{\input tufte }
>  > \stopbodymatter
>  >
>  > \stoptext
>  >
>  >
>  > ... we have page numbers on (empty) page number 4, 18 and 19!
>  >
>  > Plus there are two strange empty empty pages before the TOC?!
>
>  If you want to get a doublesided tzpeset document you should add also
>  \setuplayout[location=doublesided].
>
>  I am not shure, whether the following is correct!
>
>  Empty pages at the beginning:
>
>  You start the frontmatters with the \completecontent. - I could imagine
>  that
>  this is a consequence of the fact that the TOC starts always on a righthand
>  page. - Thus at the  moment of \startbodymatter tex is already on the first
>  page. But after identifying the \completecontents command will create two
>  page breaks in order to be able to typeset the TOC on a righthand page.
>
>  Pagenumbers on empty pages before starting a new chapter
>
>  Chapters begin on a right hand page. If the lefthand page is empty, there
>  is
>  correctly still the pagenumber. I do not know whether it is possible to
>  check whether the page before a new chapter is completely empty.



Hi Willi, I hope that it can't be to difficult:

Cause the page before a new chapter is actually completely empty JUST 
BECAUSE it is generated by (Con)TeX(t) - for chapters should begin on 
a right page.

So I only ask for empty pages (without pagenumbers) that are 
generated by (Con)TeX(t).

That's not possible in ConTeXt?

Steffen