Re: Problem with AER-Font : ß becomes SS

[Uwe Koloska <uwe.koloska@mailbox.tu-dresden.de>]

Am Dienstag,  6. März 2001 11:12 schrieb Robert F. Beeger:
> At 11:45 05.03.2001 +0100, Uwe Koloska wrote:
> >
> >Here it would have been a good idea to cite the error message correctly.
>
> Sorry, I thought that everyone would understand my e-mail as a follow-up
> to the one I posted some two weeks ago
> to this mailing-list ("Hyphenation of german words and em-dashes in
> german texts."), in which I have described this error and
> also have put it into the message. That's the advantage of news-groups.
> They are structured.

Ahem, if the message is not written in reply to another one, it isn't 
ordered in the same thread.  So your message would have started a new 
thread either in a newsgroup ...

> > > So, using the AER-Font doesn't change anything in this situation.
> > > Only when I use this \useencoding[win] after the hyphenation is done,
> > > all seems to work.

Just a remark to this older statement.  It does make a difference wether 
you use AER-fonts or not!  Try it!  If aer is left out "ß" and the umlauts 
is not recognized as a character.

> >Have you tried a minimal file without any hyphenation-exception?
>
> Yes. When using \useencoding[win] it all works. But without any
> hyphenation-exception I don't need the AER-Font.

I don't know if the following is true for context too, but it is for Tex 
and LaTeX.  Without T1 font encoding, "ß" and umlauts have to be build with 
two or more other glyphs.  And TeX is not able to hyphenate words that 
contain token (in other words, it only can hyphenate words that contain 
plain characters).  You can examine this problem by commenting the 
following lines from my previous example:

%\setupbodyfont[aer, 10pt]
%\hyphenation{auß-er-dem}

(the second one because without aer, "ß" isn't recognized as a character)

> \useencoding[win] does the right mapping with CMR, too. I changed to AER
> to make a hyphenation like
> \hyphenation{Prä-sen-ta-tion} (see it: now it's the right command :) )
> possible. I don't see any other advantages in
> using AER. I read that there are misadvantages in using AER when the text
> has formulas with greek letters in it.
> In my current text this is lukily not the problem. So sometimes it's more
> an misadvantage to use AER.

There is another package with faked T1 fonts named ze
  CTAN/fonts/zefonts
(it is a good idea to read the de-tex-faq!)

> >The latex example runs correctly and hyphenates like it is given. 
> > Context runs properly but doesn't hyphenate the way it is given (it
> > uses the right hypenation though)
> >
> >So I think, there is a problem with contexts input encoding.
>
> You did a deeper exploring than I had thought of and probably you have
> also found a bug I haven't thought of.

No, it's the same problem!  aer makes it possible to insert character with 
codes above 128 into hyphenation patterns, but [win] changes the character 
to a command, and this command can't be recognized as the same letter that 
is included in the hyphenation pattern.

> My problem is - to make it short - that I cannot have a
> \hyphenation{Prä-sen-ta-tion}
> after a
> \useencoding[win]
> and that using AER doesn't help here.

Yes, that's an adequate statement about the problem ;-)

> I tested my text for the bug you found.
> In my hyphenation file I have changed \hyphenate{Prä-sen-ta-tion} to
> \hyphenate{Prä-ßen-ta-tion}. This is not the right writing of the word,
> but it gives an interesting test case.

You didn't understand :-(  I changed the hyphenation to make it possible to 
observe wether the hyphenation is controlled by the hyphenation exception 
or the normal hyphenation algorithm!

> In my text I have an overful \hbox with the word "Präsentation" in it.
> This I also changed to "Präßentation".
>
> Here's this overful box in a run without my own hyphenations:
> Overfull \hbox (2.53653pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 898--903
> []/aer10/Ein An-satz wä-re be-stimmt, die Prä-ÿen-ta-ti-on so zu neh-men,
> wie s ie ist und sie über die ViewProvider-

If you look carefully at the message, you can see the code that is used for 
the "ß".  So I tried to insert "ÿ" instead of "ß" in the hyphenation pattern
  \hyphenation{auÿ-er-dem}
and -- guess what -- the hyphenation is considered by context!!!

> Another test. Now with Prääsentation instead of Präsentation.
> Without own hyphenation:
> Overfull \hbox (2.53653pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 898--903
> []/aer10/Ein An-satz wä-re be-stimmt, die Prää-en-ta-ti-on so zu neh-men,
> wie s ie ist und sie über die ViewProvider-
>
> and with own hyphenation
> Overfull \hbox (2.53653pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 898--903
> []/aer10/Ein An-satz wä-re be-stimmt, die Prä-äen-ta-tion so zu neh-men,
> wie si e ist und sie über die ViewProvider-
>
> So it seems to be a problem with the ß or with the encoding in general.
> You can't use \useencoding[win] before the \hyphenation-commands.
> You can't use it afer these commands, because then the words aren't
> recognize.

It is a problem with T1 encoding.  In the de-tex-faq you can find:

  Diese Kodierung entspricht im wesentlichen dem Code ISO 8859-1 (Latin-1) 
  mit dem Unterschied, daß das scharfe s zu den anderen akzentuierten 
  Kleinbuchstaben auf Position 255 gesetzt wurde

  this encoding is essentially in accordance to iso 8859-1 with the
  difference, that the sharp s "ß" is changed to position 255, where the
  other accented characters are located

This means: "ß" has a different position in iso 8859-1 (input encoding) and 
ec (output encoding) "ä" has the same position.

So if someone makes a version of ae (or ze) with texnansi (and not T1), 
this would be a workaround till we fix this encoding behaviour to match the 
one that latex uses -- and that works.

Uwe

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