critical editions in context

critical editions in context

[Thomas A.Schmitz]

Sorry if this is a double post; I sent this message on Friday, and I 
think it somehow got lost.

In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange about 
the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the main 
question was whether the functionality of edmac could be implemented in 
context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I 
couldn't find any follow-up.
Best
Thomas

Re: critical editions in context

[Idris S Hamid]

Hi Thomas,

"Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:

> In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange about
> the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the main
> question was whether the functionality of edmac could be implemented in
> context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I
> couldn't find any follow-up.

Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I could not
completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. Now
that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more proactive in
testing/suggesting things.

I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical editions
to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff soon,
because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of small
Arabic critical editions in it.

Best
Idris

Re: critical editions in context

[Hans Hagen]

At 09:12 23/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi Thomas,
>
>"Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
>
> > In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange about
> > the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the main
> > question was whether the functionality of edmac could be implemented in
> > context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I
> > couldn't find any follow-up.
>
>Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I could not
>completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. Now
>that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more proactive in
>testing/suggesting things.
>
>I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical editions
>to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff soon,
>because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of small
>Arabic critical editions in it.

if i'm right, you have somewhere:

\input page-nnt
\input core-nnt
\input core-lnt

(multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in 
footnotes and so)

Hans
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                       Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: critical editions in context

[Thomas A.Schmitz]

On Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 05:46  PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> if i'm right, you have somewhere:
>
> \input page-nnt
> \input core-nnt
> \input core-lnt
>
> (multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in 
> footnotes and so)

hmmm, is this part of the distribution? Couldn't find anything that 
looks like page-nnt etc.

Re: critical editions in context

[Thomas A.Schmitz]

OK, I feel guilty resurrecting this stale thread, but I can't resist 
asking again.

I found this in m-arabtex.tex:
%    \pushmacro\edmacloaded   \let \edmacloaded   \undefined

and later

%    \popmacro\edmacloaded

Both lines are commented out, so I'm still wondering if

The absolute basics that are needed for critical editions are:

1. Capability to have footnotes with reference to line-number instead 
of counter. These notes must not end with a newline character (see 
ASCII-art at end of post), but must provide the possibility to have 
several on one line. These notes must not flow, they have to stay on 
the same page as the reference. Horizontal tolerance can be set to very 
sloppy to achieve this

2. Must be possible to apply a format like \bf vel. sim. to the 
reference.

3. Within these notes, it should be possible to refer to other line 
numbers.

4. Nice, but not quite essential: possibility to have notes in more 
than one column.

5. Not absolutely basic, but important for serious work: have more than 
one set of notes referring to the same passage.

Is this possible in ConTeXt "out of the box"? If not, I'd be willing to 
roll up my sleeves and help, but would like to know which would be a 
good starting point.

I looked at core-ltn.tex. I'm not sure if core-nnt and page-nnt refer 
to core-not and page-not; I couldn't find anything appropriate in these 
files.

Best

Thomas

Example what should be possible:

1 This manual is about ConTEXt, a system for typesetting documents.
2 Central element in this name is the word TEX because the typographical
3 programming language TEX is the base for ConTEXt. People who are used
4 to TEX will probably identify this manual as a TEX document. They 
recognise
5 the use of \. One may also notice that the way pararaphs are broken 
into lines
6 is often better than in the avarage typesetting system.

1 manual A: handbook B     2 name A: concept B,C     typographical A:
computational B, euphoric C   4 manual A: handbook B (as in l. 1)

On Sep 23, 2003, at 5:46 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

> At 09:12 23/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> "Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
>>
>> > In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange 
>> about
>> > the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the 
>> main
>> > question was whether the functionality of edmac could be 
>> implemented in
>> > context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I
>> > couldn't find any follow-up.
>>
>> Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I 
>> could not
>> completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. 
>> Now
>> that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more 
>> proactive in
>> testing/suggesting things.
>>
>> I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical 
>> editions
>> to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff 
>> soon,
>> because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of 
>> small
>> Arabic critical editions in it.
>
> if i'm right, you have somewhere:
>
> \input page-nnt
> \input core-nnt
> \input core-lnt
>
> (multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in 
> footnotes and so)
>
> Hans

Re: critical editions in context

[Thomas A.Schmitz]

Sorry, hit the "send" button by accident.

OK, I feel guilty resurrecting this stale thread, but I can't resist 
asking again.

I found this in m-arabtex.tex:
%    \pushmacro\edmacloaded   \let \edmacloaded   \undefined

and later

%    \popmacro\edmacloaded

Both lines are commented out, so I'm still wondering if edmac will work 
with ConTeXt "out of the box."

The absolute basics that are needed for critical editions are:

1. Capability to have footnotes with reference to line-number instead 
of counter. These notes must not end with a newline character (see 
ASCII-art at end of post), but must provide the possibility to have 
several on one line. These notes must not flow, they have to stay on 
the same page as the reference. Horizontal tolerance can be set to very 
sloppy to achieve this

2. Must be possible to apply a format like \bf vel. sim. to the 
reference.

3. Within these notes, it should be possible to refer to other line 
numbers.

4. Nice, but not quite essential: possibility to have notes in more 
than one column.

5. Not absolutely basic, but important for serious work: have more than 
one set of notes referring to the same passage.

Is this possible in ConTeXt "out of the box"? If not, I'd be willing to 
roll up my sleeves and help, but would like to know which would be a 
good starting point.

I looked at core-ltn.tex. I'm not sure if core-nnt and page-nnt refer 
to core-not and page-not; I couldn't find anything appropriate in these 
files.

Best

Thomas

Example what should be possible:

1 This manual is about ConTEXt, a system for typesetting documents.
2 Central element in this name is the word TEX because the typographical
3 programming language TEX is the base for ConTEXt. People who are used
4 to TEX will probably identify this manual as a TEX document. They 
recognise
5 the use of \. One may also notice that the way pararaphs are broken 
into lines
6 is often better than in the avarage typesetting system.

1 manual A: handbook B     2 name A: concept B,C     typographical A:
computational B, euphoric C   4 manual A: handbook B (as in l. 1)

On Sep 23, 2003, at 5:46 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

> At 09:12 23/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> "Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
>>
>> > In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange 
>> about
>> > the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the 
>> main
>> > question was whether the functionality of edmac could be 
>> implemented in
>> > context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I
>> > couldn't find any follow-up.
>>
>> Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I 
>> could not
>> completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. 
>> Now
>> that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more 
>> proactive in
>> testing/suggesting things.
>>
>> I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical 
>> editions
>> to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff 
>> soon,
>> because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of 
>> small
>> Arabic critical editions in it.
>
> if i'm right, you have somewhere:
>
> \input page-nnt
> \input core-nnt
> \input core-lnt
>
> (multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in 
> footnotes and so)
>
> Hans

Re: critical editions in context / arabtex

[h h extern]

Thomas A.Schmitz wrote:
> OK, I feel guilty resurrecting this stale thread, but I can't resist 
> asking again.
> 
> I found this in m-arabtex.tex:
> %    \pushmacro\edmacloaded   \let \edmacloaded   \undefined
> 
> and later
> 
> %    \popmacro\edmacloaded
> 
> Both lines are commented out, so I'm still wondering if

i talked with Klaus Lagally at eurotex and he will make arabtex a bit more 
context friendly: a few more hooks, context aware loading, etc

he will also look into the recent problems (may hav eto do with loading heberw 
(no longer needed, part of arabtex kernel)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: critical editions in context / arabtex

[Thomas A.Schmitz]

Thanks Hans, but it's primarily edmac that I'm interested in, not 
arabtex. Could the edmac macros just be part of a Context module?

Thomas
On Mar 13, 2005, at 11:49 PM, h h extern wrote:

>
> i talked with Klaus Lagally at eurotex and he will make arabtex a bit 
> more context friendly: a few more hooks, context aware loading, etc
>
> he will also look into the recent problems (may hav eto do with 
> loading heberw (no longer needed, part of arabtex kernel)
>
> Hans
>

Re: critical editions in context / arabtex

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:30:38 +0100, Thomas A.Schmitz 
<thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> Thanks Hans, but it's primarily edmac that I'm interested in, not 
> arabtex. Could the edmac macros just be part of a Context module?

I actually considered that. During my own pre-ConTeXt work I dived deep 
into the EDMAC code and made changes so that I could do real 100% 
right-to-left critical editions. EDMAC has its own OTR, however, which 
makes it difficult to merely plug it in to ConTeXt or even LaTeX (though 
there has been a recent port to LaTeX).

As soon as I finish my present book project this month (I'm really 
behind-<) I'll be working on the critical edition business as well (I have 
to finish a critical edition for Springer Verlag (formerly Kluwer) this 
spring); maybe we can share notes and bother Hans together;-)

Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: critical editions in context / arabtex

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:30:38 +0100, Thomas A.Schmitz 
> <thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Hans, but it's primarily edmac that I'm interested in, not 
>> arabtex. Could the edmac macros just be part of a Context module?
> 
> 
> I actually considered that. During my own pre-ConTeXt work I dived deep 
> into the EDMAC code and made changes so that I could do real 100% 
> right-to-left critical editions. EDMAC has its own OTR, however, which 
> makes it difficult to merely plug it in to ConTeXt or even LaTeX (though 
> there has been a recent port to LaTeX).
> 
> As soon as I finish my present book project this month (I'm really 
> behind-<) I'll be working on the critical edition business as well (I 
> have to finish a critical edition for Springer Verlag (formerly Kluwer) 
> this spring); maybe we can share notes and bother Hans together;-)

sounds ok to me; also keep in mind that much of what you want is already there!

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: critical editions in context / arabtex

[Hans Hagen]

Thomas A.Schmitz wrote:

> Thanks Hans, but it's primarily edmac that I'm interested in, not 
> arabtex. Could the edmac macros just be part of a Context module?

not so much edmac, but similar functionality; as idris suggests: just provide a 
request for functionality + examples; think about what you want in context (or 
your docs) and not so much of what edmac does. (thinsg like configurable 
footnotes are already there)

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: critical editions in context

[h h extern]

Thomas A.Schmitz wrote:
> Sorry, hit the "send" button by accident.
> 
> OK, I feel guilty resurrecting this stale thread, but I can't resist 
> asking again.
> 
> I found this in m-arabtex.tex:
> %    \pushmacro\edmacloaded   \let \edmacloaded   \undefined
> 
> and later
> 
> %    \popmacro\edmacloaded
> 
> Both lines are commented out, so I'm still wondering if edmac will work 
> with ConTeXt "out of the box."
> 
> The absolute basics that are needed for critical editions are:
> 
> 1. Capability to have footnotes with reference to line-number instead of 
> counter. These notes must not end with a newline character (see 
> ASCII-art at end of post), but must provide the possibility to have 
> several on one line. These notes must not flow, they have to stay on the 
> same page as the reference. Horizontal tolerance can be set to very 
> sloppy to achieve this
> 
> 2. Must be possible to apply a format like \bf vel. sim. to the reference.
> 
> 3. Within these notes, it should be possible to refer to other line 
> numbers.
> 
> 4. Nice, but not quite essential: possibility to have notes in more than 
> one column.
> 
> 5. Not absolutely basic, but important for serious work: have more than 
> one set of notes referring to the same passage.
> 
> Is this possible in ConTeXt "out of the box"? If not, I'd be willing to 
> roll up my sleeves and help, but would like to know which would be a 
> good starting point.
> 
> I looked at core-ltn.tex. I'm not sure if core-nnt and page-nnt refer to 
> core-not and page-not; I couldn't find anything appropriate in these files.

the files are in the main distribution for some time; i'm still waiting for 
idris to test them; following is my test file (seems that it has a patch -)

% interface=en

\unprotect

\def\dohandlelinenote#1#2#3%
   {\bgroup
    \expanded{\beforesplitstring#2}\at--\to\linenotelinenumber
    \ifnum\linenotelinenumber=\linenumber\relax
       \def\linenotelinenumber##1{#2}%
       \setupnote[#1]
         [\c!numbercommand=\linenotelinenumber,
          \c!textcommand=\gobbleoneargument]%
       \setnote[#1]{#3}%
    \fi
    \egroup}

\protect

\starttext

\tracelinenotestrue

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]
\setuplayout[width=middle,height=middle,margin=1.5cm,footer=0pt,header=1cm]

\setupcolors[state=start]
\setuptyping[option=color]

\definelinenote[extralinenote][rule=off,frame=on,framecolor=darkgreen]
\setuplinenote [linenote]     [rule=off,frame=on,framecolor=darkred,n=2]

\showframe

\startbuffer[test]
\doglobal\increment\DummyNumber % else dups due to reuse
\startlinenumbering[100]
test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \startlinenote [well:\DummyNumber] {oeps} test test test test test test
test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \extralinenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \extralinenote {oeps} test test test test test test
test \stoplinenote [well] test test test test test test
\stoplinenumbering
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[test] \getbuffer[test]} \page

\startbuffer[setup]
\setuplinenumbering
   [align=left]
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page

\startbuffer[setup]
\setuplinenumbering
   [width=1em,
    align=left]
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page

\startbuffer[setup]
\setuplinenumbering
   [width=2em,
    distance=.5em,
    align=left]
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page

\startbuffer[setup]
\setuplinenumbering
   [width=2em,
    align=middle]
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page

\startbuffer[setup]
\setuplinenumbering
   [conversion=romannumerals,
    start=1,
    step=1,
    location=text,
    style=slanted,
    color=blue,
    width=1.5em]
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[setup] \startnarrower\getbuffer[setup,test]\stopnarrower} \page

\startbuffer[setup]
\setuplinenumbering
   [width=4em,
    left=--,
    right=--,
    align=middle]
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page

\startbuffer[setup-1]
\setuplinenumbering
   [style=\bfxx,
    command=\WatchThis]
\stopbuffer

\startbuffer[setup-2]
\def\WatchThis#1%
   {\ifodd\linenumber
      \definecolor[linecolor][red]%
    \else
      \definecolor[linecolor][green]%
    \fi
    \inframed
      [offset=1pt,frame=off,background=color,backgroundcolor=linecolor]
      {#1}}
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[setup-1,setup-2] \getbuffer[setup-1,setup-2,test]} \page

\startbuffer[setup-1]
\setuplinenumbering
   [location=inright,
    style=\bfxx,
    command=\WatchThis]
\stopbuffer

{\typebuffer[setup-1] \getbuffer[setup-1,setup-2,test]} \page

\stoptext



> Best
> 
> Thomas
> 
> Example what should be possible:
> 
> 1 This manual is about ConTEXt, a system for typesetting documents.
> 2 Central element in this name is the word TEX because the typographical
> 3 programming language TEX is the base for ConTEXt. People who are used
> 4 to TEX will probably identify this manual as a TEX document. They 
> recognise
> 5 the use of \. One may also notice that the way pararaphs are broken 
> into lines
> 6 is often better than in the avarage typesetting system.
> 
> 1 manual A: handbook B     2 name A: concept B,C     typographical A:
> computational B, euphoric C   4 manual A: handbook B (as in l. 1)
> 
> On Sep 23, 2003, at 5:46 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
>> At 09:12 23/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Thomas,
>>>
>>> "Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
>>>
>>> > In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange about
>>> > the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the main
>>> > question was whether the functionality of edmac could be 
>>> implemented in
>>> > context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I
>>> > couldn't find any follow-up.
>>>
>>> Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I 
>>> could not
>>> completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. 
>>> Now
>>> that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more 
>>> proactive in
>>> testing/suggesting things.
>>>
>>> I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical 
>>> editions
>>> to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff 
>>> soon,
>>> because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of 
>>> small
>>> Arabic critical editions in it.
>>
>>
>> if i'm right, you have somewhere:
>>
>> \input page-nnt
>> \input core-nnt
>> \input core-lnt
>>
>> (multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in 
>> footnotes and so)
>>
>> Hans
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> 
> 
> 


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: critical editions in context

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Thomas A.Schmitz <thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> <x-flowed>
> On Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 05:46  PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> > if i'm right, you have somewhere:
> >
> > \input page-nnt
> > \input core-nnt
> > \input core-lnt
> >
> > (multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in 
> > footnotes and so)
> 
> hmmm, is this part of the distribution? Couldn't find anything that 
> looks like page-nnt etc.




Hi Hans and Idris,

there was no follow-up to Thomas' mail.

As I am still looking for arbitrary footnote placement, 
do you can tell where this wonderful information is available?

Thank you,

Steffen