From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE,URIBL_SBL_A autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17082 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2023 16:53:34 -0000 Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (5.39.185.232) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 17 Jun 2023 16:53:34 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B331C390C; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:53:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.ntg.nl Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JGljc2fEy9Ar; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:53:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143711C3901; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:53:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 670A11C3901 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:53:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.ntg.nl Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y3pLNcS7k_RR for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:53:11 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=195.121.94.183; helo=ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl; envelope-from=j.hagen@xs4all.nl; receiver= Received: from ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl (ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl [195.121.94.183]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED5AA7333 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:53:10 +0200 (CEST) X-KPN-MessageId: 55bb2f2e-0d2f-11ee-a2b3-005056992ed3 Received: from smtp.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.31.155.8]) by ewsoutbound.so.kpn.org (Halon) with ESMTPS id 55bb2f2e-0d2f-11ee-a2b3-005056992ed3; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:52:24 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xs4all.nl; s=xs4all01; h=content-type:from:to:subject:mime-version:date:message-id; bh=XAhxbYqWJJkK9oc2FWPMdSlErGqshHHPpR1jlfDReUQ=; b=g+AomtyIrrTo/y/cT5OBcqAF5slyrq/DGjNsJONppgTB4MLURLZ4qQzAFpg2kFs0yMnfayzUsR4jf WWWJedGB9SONvgPxpjFm2VyXBm0WxA85XPBJ4svkdDowxw2hDRLnABMofw63Wg4lqW2gMVwD7TUFwS EJuAd/UYzr4iFA/9NKxo0JrLWHde8Cdm4l2PKWpDe+5b2utlr2SXNUVGeGd2qjHa2kwnq/PufJw9tP uqiEMeIElakau9UM4Hx7xKzR1i87lta8rlOAqfJcKJzXevVhNfN8FDDT1OD0UpYIRxj7ZOFgR7hImK omEFJm0pA5iH7jVBUJWvIT8pIZ+AKow== X-KPN-MID: 33|KX36HRCKWcPC/yJgM8GW+jpxETcSz1MZ3tKGKNqiJT/rO922A8oDCKAezodTkry qbwh8nyPNO+auUzFSr2i3iJrLjQiNC05tjeb/jOnTSIc= X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes X-CMASSUN: 33|zeN2qrxu4pkTLcskhq/uM7aHuv5+O6OCKvxBugzIdjzjWnwo82RJ1XE6CBBwtQH 0+Pk9u4ZXCsrYjEnIU52m9A== X-Originating-IP: 213.125.29.162 Received: from [10.100.1.105] (d57d1da2.static.ziggozakelijk.nl [213.125.29.162]) by smtp.xs4all.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 70821ed7-0d2f-11ee-871d-00505699d6e5; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:53:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <07621a2f-f918-1a41-2e9b-51e07480d12b@xs4all.nl> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:53:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.2 Content-Language: en-US To: ntg-context@ntg.nl References: <161B7310-CACD-4112-9715-4C6F8AFD9F95@rna.nl> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [NTG-context] Off topic: Does a 'free for commercial use' flared-sans font exist in the world? X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.38 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Cc: Hans Hagen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sender: "ntg-context" On 6/17/2023 2:06 AM, linguafalsa--- via ntg-context wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 06:35:49PM +0200, Gerben Wierda via ntg-context wrote: >> I know this is off topic, but I suspect this community is actually one of the best places to find an answer. >> > > It is the best community. And I tell you what. > > What happened is that all TeX engines have neglected fonts from the beginning. Really? When tex showed up digital font technology was pretty much in flux. And, with metafont being part of the tex ecosystem, one can argue that tex was quite innovative too. Potscript and its fonts came aroudn at the same time and were rather closed technologies. But as soon possible backend drivers (also part of the tex ecosystem) kicked in. Then we got virtual fonts which enhanced tex's capabilities. >> I really like Optima, and what I really like about it is the 'flared style'. >> >> But I would like to move to a flared-sans font that gives me more licensing freedom. I haven't been able to find one after extensive searching. The only one who were reasonably priced (not free) were the URW Classico ones in Adobe Creative Cloud, but those can only be used in Adobe programs like InDesign (and not TeX). >> > > Licensing freedom is an oxymoron. There's no freedom in licensing. > Only greed. > > The only extension engine that at one point had a plan in mind, > or most of the bases covered in this regard was Omega. One needs morr than plans. Afaik omega was more about input processing and th efont part was mostly going beyond 8 bit fonts but i might have missed something (omega was never productin ready). It is xetex that hooked into opentype although pdftex can actually deal with truetype fonts to some extend. Before there was something 'opentype' we had two competing but similar technologies. And it took a while before it was even clear how to interpre the specification (also think about reverse engeneering fonts and heuristics and ... bugs or features ...). TeX was always pretty fast in picking up new stuff (maybe users less so). > When it came to commercial fonts the plan of action ahead was by > including PFC data on these very same commercial fonts that would > benefit primarily its opentype versions in the long run. What is PFC data? > What do you have right now? Opentype fonts only. Sure. Quality can be > even the same than its type1 counterpart, and at times not so much > according so some folks that have bothered to go the extra length in > making the most accurate comparison that's available between them two. For most fonts it's just 'more shapes' which then also leads to more ligatures, kerns etc btu that is already nice. And when fonts lack something we can always tweak them (runtime). > But looking at it from a bright side/perspective, I think we're no > longer facing the same pre-historic constraints of including a font > as before, as long as it's not for commercial purposes, You are well > aware of these non and commercial uses even before your extensive > search anyway, I'm not sure what is the difference between commercial fonts and free ones as they use the same technology; with some exceptions, fonts are not that expensive (take lucida from tug, making fonts takes time after all); and for publishers it's noise on their budgets. > p.s many many years ago I read and followed some publications about > the aformentioned extension and just went over them recently, to > have an idea what did and did not work. In regards to typefaces, > its goal was unmatched, or so I think. It might be comforting to know that right from the start luatex made a lot possible wrt fonts (runtime manipulation) and was also one of the first to support variable fonts, color fonts etc (not that many care about that). And with luametatex we go even further. >> I found some flared-sans fonts, but not one with at least regular, italic, bold, and bold-italic. >> >> Is there really not a single flared-sans font that is really free (so also for commercial use) to use out there? I had to search the net to figure out that flare sans fonts are sans fonts with serifs For those into fonts: https://tug.org/TUGboat/tb44-1/tb136carter-romano.pdf I a very nice overview of how it went with digital fonts (and what we probably lost in getting where we are now and might loose soon). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________