From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/41649 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Henning Hraban Ramm Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: How could a typesetting system be today? Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:26:33 +0200 Message-ID: <09BF9DCC-1089-44E7-BD79-C06C61FEDBE2@fiee.net> References: Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1213378079 8971 80.91.229.12 (13 Jun 2008 17:27:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:27:59 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Jun 13 19:28:41 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K7D4r-0005dx-A0 for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:28:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526431FD0A; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:27:51 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24769-01-3; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:27:12 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7501F1FD19; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:27:12 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DC31FD0A for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:27:10 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24769-01-2 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:26:35 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lvps87-230-27-118.dedicated.hosteurope.de (fiee.net [87.230.27.118]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825231FD19 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:26:35 +0200 (CEST) Comment: DomainKeys? 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(62.203.50.234) by fiee.net with (AES128-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 13 Jun 2008 19:26:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.924) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:41649 Archived-At: Am 2008-06-12 um 20:26 schrieb Maur=ED cio: > The reason for a standard tag language is that the main engine > should be able to do some operations on data, like breaking it in > pieces like words, paragraphs or staffs on music scores, sometimes > without fully understanding what exactly those are. > > Possible outcomes: with a proper script language (Lua?), > things like tables, multi-column text, and even a lot of crazy > ideas could be really easy to write. Plug-ins results would be > predictable, since they know nothing about the world except what > the main engine has informed them. As far as I can judge, music typesetting has completely different = rules than text typesetting. Ok, you would "just" use another plugin. But then the plugins need a way to interact: captions in graphics = (like in MetaPost today), lyrics in music etc. I myself wouldn't probably able to handle a MetaPost based system (or = something similar) - even if I "speak" a bit of PostScript, I just = don't think of graphics as formulae: To create e.g. an eye-shape, I = can place two circles in Illustrator (or any other GUI program) and = make an intersection. But I couldn't do the same programmatically, = even if I approximately know what to do in this case. (You could answer to my mail on command lines, I should please try to = become mathematically literate.) However, you need different parsers for different types of content - = and at least the LilyPond folks would strongly suggest that some Lisp = dialect is the right language for anything that needs parsing. I guess = you know the quote that everyone who writes a parser will end re- = creating a buggy subset of Lisp. (I don't speak Lisp. I don't speak = TeX-the-language or Lua as well. But the latter seems easy.) I guess that's a inconvenience with TeX/MetaPost/LilyPond: they use = similar, but different tagging, and those don't mix very well, esp. = LilyPond with its Scheme snippets (I don't appreciate the use of = single ' for strings and # for constants...). (Similar to HTML/PHP/ = Smarty/JavaScript.) Of course you could use the same kind of tagging for all the different = types of content - I guess you will end with something like = OpenDocument (OOo.XML), that uses SVG for the graphics. Oh, and don't forget MathML (and the other XML dialects like PhysML = and ChemML). Hm, perhaps we should embed MusicXML instead of LilyPond... You see: There is your unified system. XML rulez - for better or for = worse. It's really no fun to write XML by hand. Perhaps you should try to help enhancing OpenOffice's typesetting? # Or Scribus? I heard Scribus has TeX boxes of late: A GUI DTP = application where some boxes get rendered by LaTeX (meant for = formulae, of course). AFAIK Scribus' file format is also XML-based. And maybe they even = support plugins for more different boxes... Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/ http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer) ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________